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- Thread starter Buckskin86
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I'm sure they meant if those players were on their way out already. Nobody would ever suggest we give half the roster to USF just because Hartline is a swell dude.
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OregonBuckeye
Semper Fi Buckeyes
Ahh, thought something else more recent had happened with him
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He probably should take KH. He’s not starting over Sayin next year or St Clair the next. Why would you selfishly want a kid to ride the bench here rather than make a name for himself at a directional school?
I would rather him transfer to USF under Hartline than go somewhere like Ga Tech. And if there are any players that were already going to transfer, why not USF as well? This would have been a great position for a guy like Flemming.
I’m not saying we give him Smith or Chris Henry, but there are guys like Bryson Rogers that would benefit.
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Yeah I really don’t get the angst TBH. I personally want Hartline to be successful and I don’t see how this is harmful to tOSU.
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It’s harmful in the sense we lost the best recruiter and developer of talent anyone’s ever seen, for the position that has given the Ryan Day offense such a huge advantage for the past 6 years.
The pipeline is still full but this is the most dangerous assistant coach defection Day has had so far. Maybe ever will have.
It will be a be interesting to see how he manages it.
That's obviously harmful. The not at all harmful part is what happens now. If players who are already transferring out go to USF, that's not harmful to Ohio State at all.
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Right, which was what at I was taking the conversation to be about.
Hartline getting this opportunity for sure hurts, but we all knew it was going to happen at some point.
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calibuck
Too soon old, too late smart
Seriously doubt that any player with a chance of being in two deep will follow Hartline to USF. No way, no how. Simply the TV exposure ensures that. But, if the kid is going to transfer anyway, why wouldn't he go be with a coach he's trained under? LK is a likely start for Hartline. Maybe the QB that transferred to South Caroline (?), name escapes me, but xferred when Sayin came on board. Might be another likely one. Yeah, some of the OL guys, haven't quite cut it at tOSU, or have been buried because of someone pushing ahead of them on the roster, certainly. Someone above said it best, if they're gonna Xfer anyway, why not go to USF with Hartline? It's a win-win-win after all. Win for the kid, he can play there. Win for Hartline, because he knows how well the kid's been taught/trained, and win for the Buckeyes, because it opens a roster space for another kid, whether recruit or transfer. And let us not forget, a win for the Buckeyes, because won't have to face them as an opponent. Win a ring on the pine, or play at another school?
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calibuck
Too soon old, too late smart
After re-reading other's threads. This is Hartline's coaching start, as the big dog, not position coach, where he made his bones. Like many of you, wonder (this year), how much Hartline actually called the game, with Day standing over his shoulder, and most probably, nixing some of his calls, with his own if didn't agree. That, more than anything, might have pushed Hartline out the door. (would have me). Hartline is starting his coaching ascent, and has gotta win at USF. If he does that, he'll be given/recruited to a larger school on a bigger stage. Suggest you look at Eddie George, who started coaching at a low level, and now is at Bowling Green (a higher level). If he succeeds there, he'll get a shot at a bigger job (maybe in the B10?). Anyway, history is littered with those who succeeded (UFM's ascension from BG to tOSU), and those who failed, (back to being a position coach, or OC/DC). Anyway, wish him well, as he's still a representative of tOSU....and yeah, believe Day should let him go to USF, and not have him divided. He's too fresh a newbie to be able to compartmentalize his roll as OC, and HC. IMHO
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Buckeye86
I do not choose to discuss it
I have a theory I’ve been thinking about. The click bait headline is that Brian Hartline is too demanding of his wide receivers.
I think this manifests itself in two ways.
First, the shallow rotation. This has been a back burner discussion for several years which I think came more to the fore this season. As Hartline was taken away from the receiver room, I think he had less time to grow the trust he needed in the backups to develop a better rotation, even compared to previous seasons.
Second, and I think this only became a problem this season as he took over play calling responsibilities, his play calling indicates a lack of trust in his wide receivers, especially with run blocking, which, surprise surprise, manifests itself most severely in the red zone and short yardage plays, which have been a massive problem all season.
In my head, the coaching room conversation goes something like this:
Hartline: “The receivers aren’t perfectly executing their run blocks on every single play (to the theory that he’s too demanding of the WRs), we can’t depend on them in short yardage. Bailey, are your guys ready to go?”
Bailey: “Hell yeah, let’s ride!”
Day: “It looks like the TEs are grading out higher than the WRs (I am assuming the position coaches are responsible for giving out the championship grades here, going back to the main thrust of the theory) in run blocking, I guess we’re going to keep going with three and four TE sets in short yardage and the red zone.”
Hartline: “Good, my guys are bad at run blocking.”
Bailey: “Great, my guys are the greatest ever at everything. Can we put five TEs on the field at the same time?”
Hartline as WR coach with a different person at OC who can override his perfectionism and still use the WRs heavily in all situations has been a great formula for Ohio State.
Hartline as the WR coach and OC with no one to override his perfectionism has, in my opinion, led to the baffling over reliance on TEs this season.
I am hopeful that this will be resolved in the post season with Day taking over more of the play call responsibilities, and longer term with the replacement hires.
Maybe I’m always the Buckeye optimist, but replacing Hartline as the best WR coach in the country is impossible, but replacing Hartline as the WR/OC has room for improvement, even as the WR room might take a hit.
Now I’m really going off the deep end here, I think Hartline’s run of insane WR recruiting was winding down in the age of NIL anyways, as each school can only budget for so many truly elite players per position group and Hartline (or anybody else) isn’t going to be stacking them 4-5 deep per class anymore regardless of how good they are at recruiting.
Again, I think the WR room will likely take a hit, but the new realities of recruiting and someone who can implement a healthier rotation are things that could mitigate how big that hit will be in my always overly optimistic opinion.
Day has been hitting his coaching hires out of the park, and with the right hires this offseason, I again think he has the chance to improve the overall picture on offense despite the loss of Hartline.
I think this manifests itself in two ways.
First, the shallow rotation. This has been a back burner discussion for several years which I think came more to the fore this season. As Hartline was taken away from the receiver room, I think he had less time to grow the trust he needed in the backups to develop a better rotation, even compared to previous seasons.
Second, and I think this only became a problem this season as he took over play calling responsibilities, his play calling indicates a lack of trust in his wide receivers, especially with run blocking, which, surprise surprise, manifests itself most severely in the red zone and short yardage plays, which have been a massive problem all season.
In my head, the coaching room conversation goes something like this:
Hartline: “The receivers aren’t perfectly executing their run blocks on every single play (to the theory that he’s too demanding of the WRs), we can’t depend on them in short yardage. Bailey, are your guys ready to go?”
Bailey: “Hell yeah, let’s ride!”
Day: “It looks like the TEs are grading out higher than the WRs (I am assuming the position coaches are responsible for giving out the championship grades here, going back to the main thrust of the theory) in run blocking, I guess we’re going to keep going with three and four TE sets in short yardage and the red zone.”
Hartline: “Good, my guys are bad at run blocking.”
Bailey: “Great, my guys are the greatest ever at everything. Can we put five TEs on the field at the same time?”
Hartline as WR coach with a different person at OC who can override his perfectionism and still use the WRs heavily in all situations has been a great formula for Ohio State.
Hartline as the WR coach and OC with no one to override his perfectionism has, in my opinion, led to the baffling over reliance on TEs this season.
I am hopeful that this will be resolved in the post season with Day taking over more of the play call responsibilities, and longer term with the replacement hires.
Maybe I’m always the Buckeye optimist, but replacing Hartline as the best WR coach in the country is impossible, but replacing Hartline as the WR/OC has room for improvement, even as the WR room might take a hit.
Now I’m really going off the deep end here, I think Hartline’s run of insane WR recruiting was winding down in the age of NIL anyways, as each school can only budget for so many truly elite players per position group and Hartline (or anybody else) isn’t going to be stacking them 4-5 deep per class anymore regardless of how good they are at recruiting.
Again, I think the WR room will likely take a hit, but the new realities of recruiting and someone who can implement a healthier rotation are things that could mitigate how big that hit will be in my always overly optimistic opinion.
Day has been hitting his coaching hires out of the park, and with the right hires this offseason, I again think he has the chance to improve the overall picture on offense despite the loss of Hartline.
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So the talent and depth of talent in the WR room will go down (most likely) but the offense will get better?
Seeing as Day’s advantage is built on the corner stone of having an NFL system with NFL receivers overwhelming the scheme and talent gap against college defenses, any hit to that massive talent gap at WR would seem to suggest offensive regression. Not growth.
I get wanting to be optimistic at baseline but what’s the logic?
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