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Name Recognition

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Buckeyeskickbuttocks

Buckeyeskickbuttocks

Z --> Z^2 + c
Staff member
In This Thread I posit that SEC fans consider their conference "great" on "name recognition" Teams like Alabama, Tennessee, LSU, Florida, Georgia, and to some extent Auburn are considered "traditional powers" and so SEC fans can claim a "great conference" Here, I will describe ways in which the Big Ten, if fans so wanted, could tout the same or similar "name recognition" power.

I'll use National Titles as the metric, though understand, this isn't a "real" argument so much as it is just a theory on how Big Ten fans could bolster the Big Ten's national reputation on par with SEC fans.

Michigan. When it comes to made up titles, only Alabama, Notre Dame and USC can claim more. Considered THE power before there was such a thing as a forward pass. If you want to know how great Michigan used to be, just ask a Michigan fan

Ohio State. 5 "real" national championships, and 2 which are recognized by various people (1961, 1970) but which I don't count. Most wins of any program since 1930. Despite a "mediocre 80s-early 90s" where a typical team was 9-3, has been a "national player" consistently since Paul Brown.

Michigan State - won or shared 6 national titles

Minnesota - If Michigan lost in 1904, it was to Minnesota. That is to say, Minnesota used to be a big big deal. 6 National Titles. Unlike USC, actually won 3 straight (1934 - 1936)

Penn State - 7 undefeated seasons, 2 National Titles.

Illinois - 5 National Titles. Dick Butkus, Red Grange.

Wisconsin - no National Titles, but has fielded very powerful teams over a long period of time, though has suffered horrible stretches of awfulness.

Purdue - Like Wiscy, no title, has the occasional powerhouse, and the stretches of misery

Iowa - See Wisconsin and Purdue

Indiana - Sucks, and has always sucked

Northwestern - sucks and has always sucked

While the above considers "Fake Titles" (Retro) let's look at "real" titles (that is since 1936 AP)
In total - the Big Ten claims 13 National Titles since 1936
Won by:
Ohio State (5), Michigan (2), Michigan State (1), Minnesota (3), and Penn State (2)
The SEC? 14 won by Alabama (6), LSU (2), Auburn (1), Florida (2) Georgia (1) and Tennessee (2)

Admittedly, PSU's 2 did not occur while in the Big Ten. But, alas, PSU is in the B10 now, so as Big Ten Homers, we can tout it all we want. Yes, MSU's last Title was in 1966. True, Minnesota's was 1960. Penn State, despite having one of the greatest teams of all time (1994) won it's last in 1986. But, then... Bama hasn't won since 92. Georgia, 1980. Auburn, 1957... so, it's kind of a wash...

SEC, you've got 6 "powers" Big Ten, you've got 5.... and a lot more Heisman winners.


------------------------

Anyway... I don't post this because I believe it. I'm posting it because of "SEC Silliness" claiming to be something it's not. Likewise, I haven't been careful to check these titles and dates, though I think they're reasonably close to "correct" (I did only a quick Google, paying little attention to who was awarding said title - reason - I'm only partly serious here, more trying to prove a different point.. that being, nothing of "actual" superiority and more about how easy it is to fake it and be a conference homer)

Truth is, both conferences are traditionally very good. They play good football in the South. We northerners get that. But, we play good football up here too... and you seem to refuse to recognize. But, remember this.. the football hall of fame is in Canton Ohio... and there's a reason for that. Football is a NORTHERN game.
 
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1036254; said:
Truth is, both conferences are traditionally very good. They play good football in the South. We northerners get that. But, we play good football up here too... and you seem to refuse to recognize. But, remember this.. the football hall of fame is in Canton Ohio... and there's a reason for that. Football is a NORTHERN game.
Click to expand...

BKB, the two teams that played The Game for the Big-10 Title play two SEC teams that have had recent success. Like it, hate it, say it does not matter, that the Big-10 took two of three last year, or whatever, but this is a pivotal year..

The reputation that I care about* has nothing to do with Butkus or Hershel Walker. It has squat to do with national titles. It has to do with the here and now. Skunk bears give us hell and you beat LSU in their back yard, and what happened last year will be gone in a puff of smoke. Two SEC beat downs of the top Big-10 teams will mean that it will be many years of trying in vain to get the pundits to give you the credit you do deserve.

Split the two and it still ain't fair. LSU beats you and Michigan beats UF, you will still hear all about the now 0-9 streak and two SEC Trophies in a row, but NOW you'll hear about how a two loss SEC team is better than the rest of the world.

I hate to tell you my friend, but absent a victory over LSU you will not get any traction. I'm not saying that I agree, I'm not saying it's fair, but you have to make 0-8 into 1-9 and a Crystal Trophy or all of that sincerity and logic won't mean squat. Silliness is may be, but the game last year was a big damn hole that was dug. You can fill it up on the 7th, but until you do, the problem is that there is a justification for the SEC chest puffing with your particular squad. You need to excise those SEC demons, and it will be over in a flash. Get thumped by LSU, and you can take all of the stats in whatever order want, and you will still be losing the public perception battle. This game is huge for you. More huge, I think, for you than for LSU. I expect a battle.

*this is different from my respect for the tradition of excellence of any school, which I have in abundance. Brown was a great power, but if the Gators play them, I do not have to respect them on the field until they beat us. This is 2007.
 
Upvote 0
Gatorubet;1036272; said:
BKB, the two teams that played The Game for the Big-10 Title play two SEC teams that have had recent success. Like it, hate it, say it does not matter, that the Big-10 took two of three last year, or whatever, but this is a pivotal year..

The reputation that I care about* has nothing to do with Butkus or Hershel Walker. It has squat to do with national titles. It has to do with the here and now. Skunk bears give us hell and you beat LSU in their back yard, and what happened last year will be gone in a puff of smoke. Two SEC beat downs of the top Big-10 teams will mean that it will be many years of trying in vain to get the pundits to give you the credit you do deserve.

Split the two and it still ain't fair. LSU beats you and Michigan beats UF, you will still hear all about the now 0-9 streak and two SEC Trophies in a row, but NOW you'll hear about how a two loss SEC team is better than the rest of the world.

I hate to tell you my friend, but absent a victory over LSU you will not get any traction. I'm not saying that I agree, I'm not saying it's fair, but you have to make 0-8 into 1-9 and a Crystal Trophy or all of that sincerity and logic won't mean squat. Silliness is may be, but the game last year was a big damn hole that was dug. You can fill it up on the 7th, but until you do, the problem is that there is a justification for the SEC chest puffing with your particular squad. You need to excise those SEC demons, and it will be over in a flash. Get thumped by LSU, and you can take all of the stats in whatever order want, and you will still be losing the public perception battle. This game is huge for you. More huge, I think, for you than for LSU. I expect a battle.

*this is different from my respect for the tradition of excellence of any school, which I have in abundance. Brown was a great power, but if the Gators play them, I do not have to respect them on the field until they beat us. This is 2007.
Click to expand...
Luckily, I'm sure our coaches are telling our players the same thing you just did.
 
Upvote 0
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1036254; said:
In This Thread I posit that SEC fans consider their conference "great" on "name recognition" Teams like Alabama, Tennessee, LSU, Florida, Georgia, and to some extent Auburn are considered "traditional powers" and so SEC fans can claim a "great conference" Here, I will describe ways in which the Big Ten, if fans so wanted, could tout the same or similar "name recognition" power.

I'll use National Titles as the metric, though understand, this isn't a "real" argument so much as it is just a theory on how Big Ten fans could bolster the Big Ten's national reputation on par with SEC fans.

Michigan. When it comes to made up titles, only Alabama, Notre Dame and USC can claim more. Considered THE power before there was such a thing as a forward pass. If you want to know how great Michigan used to be, just ask a Michigan fan

Ohio State. 5 "real" national championships, and 2 which are recognized by various people (1961, 1970) but which I don't count. Most wins of any program since 1930. Despite a "mediocre 80s-early 90s" where a typical team was 9-3, has been a "national player" consistently since Paul Brown.

Michigan State - won or shared 6 national titles

Minnesota - If Michigan lost in 1904, it was to Minnesota. That is to say, Minnesota used to be a big big deal. 6 National Titles. Unlike USC, actually won 3 straight (1934 - 1936)

Penn State - 7 undefeated seasons, 2 National Titles.

Illinois - 5 National Titles. Dick Butkus, Red Grange.

Wisconsin - no National Titles, but has fielded very powerful teams over a long period of time, though has suffered horrible stretches of awfulness.

Purdue - Like Wiscy, no title, has the occasional powerhouse, and the stretches of misery

Iowa - See Wisconsin and Purdue

Indiana - Sucks, and has always sucked

Northwestern - sucks and has always sucked

While the above considers "Fake Titles" (Retro) let's look at "real" titles (that is since 1936 AP)
In total - the Big Ten claims 13 National Titles since 1936
Won by:
Ohio State (5), Michigan (2), Michigan State (1), Minnesota (3), and Penn State (2)
The SEC? 14 won by Alabama (6), LSU (2), Auburn (1), Florida (2) Georgia (1) and Tennessee (2)

Admittedly, PSU's 2 did not occur while in the Big Ten. But, alas, PSU is in the B10 now, so as Big Ten Homers, we can tout it all we want. Yes, MSU's last Title was in 1966. True, Minnesota's was 1960. Penn State, despite having one of the greatest teams of all time (1994) won it's last in 1986. But, then... Bama hasn't won since 92. Georgia, 1980. Auburn, 1957... so, it's kind of a wash...

SEC, you've got 6 "powers" Big Ten, you've got 5.... and a lot more Heisman winners.


------------------------

Anyway... I don't post this because I believe it. I'm posting it because of "SEC Silliness" claiming to be something it's not. Likewise, I haven't been careful to check these titles and dates, though I think they're reasonably close to "correct" (I did only a quick Google, paying little attention to who was awarding said title - reason - I'm only partly serious here, more trying to prove a different point.. that being, nothing of "actual" superiority and more about how easy it is to fake it and be a conference homer)

Truth is, both conferences are traditionally very good. They play good football in the South. We northerners get that. But, we play good football up here too... and you seem to refuse to recognize. But, remember this.. the football hall of fame is in Canton Ohio... and there's a reason for that. Football is a NORTHERN game.
Click to expand...

^^^ GPA ^^^
 
Upvote 0
Gatorubet;1036272; said:
BKB, the two teams that played The Game for the Big-10 Title play two SEC teams that have had recent success. Like it, hate it, say it does not matter, that the Big-10 took two of three last year, or whatever, but this is a pivotal year..

The reputation that I care about* has nothing to do with Butkus or Hershel Walker. It has squat to do with national titles. It has to do with the here and now. Skunk bears give us hell and you beat LSU in their back yard, and what happened last year will be gone in a puff of smoke. Two SEC beat downs of the top Big-10 teams will mean that it will be many years of trying in vain to get the pundits to give you the credit you do deserve.

Split the two and it still ain't fair. LSU beats you and Michigan beats UF, you will still hear all about the now 0-9 streak and two SEC Trophies in a row, but NOW you'll hear about how a two loss SEC team is better than the rest of the world.

I hate to tell you my friend, but absent a victory over LSU you will not get any traction. I'm not saying that I agree, I'm not saying it's fair, but you have to make 0-8 into 1-9 and a Crystal Trophy or all of that sincerity and logic won't mean squat. Silliness is may be, but the game last year was a big damn hole that was dug. You can fill it up on the 7th, but until you do, the problem is that there is a justification for the SEC chest puffing with your particular squad. You need to excise those SEC demons, and it will be over in a flash. Get thumped by LSU, and you can take all of the stats in whatever order want, and you will still be losing the public perception battle. This game is huge for you. More huge, I think, for you than for LSU. I expect a battle.

*this is different from my respect for the tradition of excellence of any school, which I have in abundance. Brown was a great power, but if the Gators play them, I do not have to respect them on the field until they beat us. This is 2007.
Click to expand...

hate to say it, but ^^^ also deserves a GPA ^^^

no... i'm not drunk.
 
Upvote 0
Well, the harsh reality is this: Every SEC fans think LSU got the easiest ride they could get with tOSU. We're 0-8 vs the SEC in bowl games, so it's not like we can really say a lot to defend. Gator pointed it out, I hate the fact that he's a gator, and more than anything, I hate the fact that he's right, if we lose this one there will be no end to the SEC crap that will plague the college-football-world to come. This year, more than ever, the conversations have been "THE SEC IS THE TOUGHEST CONFERENCE EVER" and even more people are saying that won't change. What's happened in the past is just that, it doesn't have a lot of bearing on the future except in the minds of fans who will constantly drill it into us.

I can name so many reasons I want this win, but the major one comes down to this, I want that streak of 0-8 over. I don't want that "It's Ohio State vs any SEC team, SEC Team wins" idea spreading any further. The SEC is a good conference, and I can't take anything away from that, but the idea that the Big10 is this horrible conference with easy schedules that walk us to the NCG bothers me, we've always been a football conference, and this down year the rest of the conf has had doesn't really help us with that image.
 
Upvote 0
OCBucksFan;1036302; said:
Well, the harsh reality is this: Every SEC fans think LSU got the easiest ride they could get with tOSU. We're 0-8 vs the SEC in bowl games, so it's not like we can really say a lot to defend. Gator pointed it out, I hate the fact that he's a gator, and more than anything, I hate the fact that he's right, if we lose this one there will be no end to the SEC crap that will plague the college-football-world to come. This year, more than ever, the conversations have been "THE SEC IS THE TOUGHEST CONFERENCE EVER" and even more people are saying that won't change. What's happened in the past is just that, it doesn't have a lot of bearing on the future except in the minds of fans who will constantly drill it into us.

I can name so many reasons I want this win, but the major one comes down to this, I want that streak of 0-8 over. I don't want that "It's Ohio State vs any SEC team, SEC Team wins" idea spreading any further. The SEC is a good conference, and I can't take anything away from that, but the idea that the Big10 is this horrible conference with easy schedules that walk us to the NCG bothers me, we've always been a football conference, and this down year the rest of the conf has had doesn't really help us with that image.
Click to expand...

Yea, there really is a strong backstory to this NCG.
 
Upvote 0
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1036254; said:
While the above considers "Fake Titles" (Retro) let's look at "real" titles (that is since 1936 AP)
In total - the Big Ten claims 13 National Titles since 1936
Won by:
Ohio State (5), Michigan (2), Michigan State (1), Minnesota (3), and Penn State (2)
The SEC? 14 won by Alabama (6), LSU (2), Auburn (1), Florida (2) Georgia (1) and Tennessee (2)
Click to expand...

I know you hit upon some of the titles being won a long time ago, but from an SEC fan's point of view, let's look at how recent all the national titles are. Looking back 40 decades (approximately two generations):

Last 5 years (2002-2006):
Big 10: 1 (Ohio State '02)
SEC: 2 (LSU '03, Florida '06)

Last 10 years (1997-2006):
Big 10: 2 (Michigan '97, Ohio State '02)
SEC: 3 (Tennessee '98, LSU '03, Florida '06)

Last 15 years (1992-2006):
Big 10: 2 (Michigan '97, Ohio State '02)
SEC: 5 (Alabama '92, Florioda '96, Tennessee '98, LSU '03, Florida '06)

Last 20 years (1987-2006):
Big 10: 2 (Michigan '97, Ohio State '02)
SEC: 5 (Alabama '92, Florida '96, Tennessee '98, LSU '03, Florida '06)

Last 25 years (1982-2006):
Big 10: 2 (Michigan '97, Ohio State '02)
SEC: 5 (Alabama '92, Florida '96, Tennessee '98, LSU '03, Florida '06)

Last 30 years (1977-2006):
Big 10: 2 (Michigan '97, Ohio State '02)
SEC: 8 (Alabama '78, Alabama '79, Georgia '80, Alabama '92, Florida '96, Tennessee '98, LSU '03, Florida '06)

Last 35 years (1972-2006):
Big 10: 2 (Michigan '97, Ohio State '02)
SEC: 9 (Alabama '73, Alabama '78, Alabama '79, Georgia '80, Alabama '92, Florida '96, Tennessee '98, LSU '03, Florida '06)

Last 40 years (1967-2006):
Big 10: 3 (Ohio State '68, Michigan '97, Ohio State '02)
SEC: 9 (Alabama '73, Alabama '78, Alabama '79, Georgia '80, Alabama '92, Florida '96, Tennessee '98, LSU '03, Florida '06)


You could see why they could argue about which conference is more powerful and balanced: SEC with 9 national titles by 5 different teams; Big 10 with 3 national titles by 2 different teams. We went 29 years without a national title, while the longest the SEC went was 12 years.
 
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