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MLB General Discussion (Official Thread)

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Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux said:
Too much money invested in these guys arms nowadays.

Managers/GMs/Owners want a full season’s ROI. It may be overly cautious, but that’s how it is now.
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Paradoxically enough, they aren’t getting a full season anymore.

30 starts and 200+ IP are few and far between.

There is a lot more to pitch counts/injuries/arm care but just pointing it out. It’s a very interesting topic. No one really has a clue and there’s little to no real science beh Bd any opinions that I am aware of.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Paradoxically enough, they aren’t getting a full season anymore.

30 starts and 200+ IP are few and far between.

There is a lot more to pitch counts/injuries/arm care but just pointing it out. It’s a very interesting topic. No one really has a clue and there’s little to no real science beh Bd any opinions that I am aware of.
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I wonder if it’s psychological.

All the focus on not getting hurt causes pitchers to feel hurt or maybe even get hurt?

I think that the “what you believe/think is your reality” type of philosophy can be exaggerated (usually by self help grifters), yet at the same time I do think there is some truth to it.
 
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Tomateaux Quinoa Gumbeaux said:
Too much money invested in these guys arms nowadays.

Managers/GMs/Owners want a full season’s ROI. It may be overly cautious, but that’s how it is now.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen nor heard any evidence that pitching injuries are down since pitch count became a thing, though. It certainly doesn't seem so. I think it's a false sense of security, as well as a PR move. If I guy making $100 million blows out his arm on pitch 125 someone gets fired to appease irate fans and media.

I saw Leo Mazzone talk about it after he retired. His analogy was basically you keep your arm strong by throwing - this includes more sessions between starts. Weightlifters don't get stronger by resting more and lifting less. Some rest is needed, but you strengthen muscles by using them.
 
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Jake said:
I haven't seen nor heard any evidence that pitching injuries are down since pitch count became a thing, though. It certainly doesn't seem so. I think it's a false sense of security, as well as a PR move. If I guy making $100 million blows out his arm on pitch 125 someone gets fired to appease irate fans and media.

I saw Leo Mazzone talk about it after he retired. His analogy was basically you keep your arm strong by throwing - this includes more sessions between starts. Weightlifters don't get stronger by resting more and lifting less. Some rest is needed, but you strengthen muscles by using them.
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That isn't a great analogy though (I have heard it a lot over the years). Most of the really bad injuries are to ligaments and tendons. Unless I am mistaken, you can't really strengthen those.

This is kind of my point though, there are dozens of theories but all have very clear challenges to them.

I just think its freaking genetics and some dudes get hurt while others keep going. Pitching wears on the arm, it's just a matter fo time until you have thrown your last pitch. In between there are things you can do (plyo balls, good mechanics etc) but overall no one has found a clear link to activity and injuries other than over pitching in youth baseball. That one is clear as a bell.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
That isn't a great analogy though (I have heard it a lot over the years). Most of the really bad injuries are to ligaments and tendons. Unless I am mistaken, you can't really strengthen those.

This is kind of my point though, there are dozens of theories but all have very clear challenges to them.

I just think its freaking genetics and some dudes get hurt while others keep going. Pitching wears on the arm, it's just a matter fo time until you have thrown your last pitch. In between there are things you can do (plyo balls, good mechanics etc) but overall no one has found a clear link to activity and injuries other than over pitching in youth baseball. That one is clear as a bell.
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As someone who had painful tendonitis, arm strength directly impacts the stress on tendons and ligaments. I broke my arm about 20 years ago. After six weeks in a cast I began PT to get range of motion back. Like a dumbfuck I decided to go back to the gym (where I broke it in the first place) and start lifting weights with a brace. The weights I was lifting were too heavy because I had to get the guns back (lol), and it didn't take more than a few days before I had searing pain in my forearm (the break was just above my wrist).

Went to my doc, fessed up about lifting weights (he told me not to until I finished all of the PT), and bingo - tendonitis. He pressed on the tendon and I almost punched him with my other arm. It hurt like a bitch for weeks before I could do anything.

Long story short, weak muscles stress tendons and ligaments. Stronger muscles take pressure off them. But some athletes are just more prone to injuries as well.
 
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Jake said:
As someone who had painful tendonitis, arm strength directly impacts the stress on tendons and ligaments. I broke my arm about 20 years ago. After six weeks in a cast I began PT to get range of motion back. Like a dumbfuck I decided to go back to the gym (where I broke it in the first place) and start lifting weights with a brace. The weights I was lifting were too heavy because I had to get the guns back (lol), and it didn't take more than a few days before I had searing pain in my forearm (the break was just above my wrist).

Went to my doc, fessed up about lifting weights (he told me not to until I finished all of the PT), and bingo - tendonitis. He pressed on the tendon and I almost punched him with my other arm. It hurt like a bitch for weeks before I could do anything.

Long story short, weak muscles stress tendons and ligaments. Stronger muscles take pressure off them. But some athletes are just more prone to injuries as well.
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Yep. You can strengthen the area around them but that’s an example of what I’m talking about.

You are just doing something that logically/probably helps some but no idea how much or how little. That’s my point of no direct cause/effect link.
 
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