Miami QB's

[sharkonwheels]

OK - wanna solicit some opinions...

I know ya'll are going to want to punt me around the board for fun, and that's fine, I can take it, but in-between the kicks, can you give some opinions?

After the past few years, and QB's, I'm SERIOUSLY doubting our QB coaching staff's ability to "bring-along" a quarterback.

So here's my question...

If you took that same string of "highly-rated recruits" of the past few years, Brock Berlin, Kyle Wright, Robert Marve, and Jacory Harris, and they went through another school with traditional drop-back passers, say OU under Bob Stoops, what do you think would be the result?

Hypothetically going through Stoops' OU program, do you think they'd all still be as average as they have all appeared here at Miami?

EDIT: damn - wrong forum. Can a mod move this under "College Football" please? Thanks.

 

[stowfan]

I'll only comment on Harris, I think he would have done better elsewhere. My opinion of Randy Shannon is; great recruiter, who does little to really develop the talent, and is a poor game day coach. I thought his team was poorly prepared for Saturday.

Just my humble opinion, but the O-line was poorly coached, and the wide receivers were poorly coached. None of Harris' interceptions were really "bad" throws. The second int, the wide receiver decided to block instead of catching the ball. The third int, the receiver caught the ball turned around and handed it to our DBs.

I can think of 20 programs I believe Harris could have done better with.

 

[Diego-Bucks]

Oh, that type of hypothetical is tough to address. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who'd say they WOULDN'T do any better with Stoops instead of Coker/Shannon. He's a phenomenal coach with a proven track-record. Although in recent seasons Stoops has run more out of the shotgun-spread as opposed to traditional drop-back passing (i.e. USC, Stanford and only a few other programs now-a-days).

That being said, the staff isn't always to blame for the lack of QB productivity (as you know). Sometimes the offensive line just puts those guys in a bad way or the prospects themselves aren't willing to put the extra work it takes to make a truly exceptional QB. I think in this case, many of your QB recruits were high-risk, high-reward guys and IIRC they seemed to be built up as projects? Is that a fair assumption?

Over the last few seasons, it is obvious your high-end talent (on the overall team) remained but it was not as prolific as past eras in terms of draftable talent. But its quite clear the depth has not been there, where as Oklahoma (since you cited Stoops specifically) has been a monster. Looking across other programs as well, you can have a 4- and 5-star recruit at QB, but if you don't supplement him with solid line-play then they will never develop beyond being an extremely talented project QB. As always, the hardest position to maintain excellence at is QB because they depend on everything else to also be good. Take a look at California (mired in 7-9 win mediocrity), UCLA, Tennessee, Texas A&M and you will find talent rich squads who simply cannot find a QB who gives them more than an average effort. I think Miami was in that way since Dorsey left.

I think with the resurgence of the Miami program in the last few seasons, QB play has also gotten better. But which caused what? Is Harris' better play a causation or a by-product of better depth, line-play, and a larger "margin for error"? I don't know enough to state.

One thing that is a large issue in QB play is coaches becoming inflexible with their system. For me, the best schools at QB development (at the college level) have been Texas Tech, Purdue, Houston, USC and Oklahoma. They seem to create blocking schemes, receiver routes, innovative drop-backs and roll-outs that take advantage of each passer's strengths and weaknesses. So perhaps your Miami staff fell into this inflexibility when it came to their prospects running the system.

Or in other words, yes I do think that Marve, Berlin and Harris would have been better (and in Harris' case better quicker) with different coaches/systems. Although Harris is doing quite well given he is still just a Junior.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Michigan had a similar problem up until their newest coaching hire, where they have put an undersized running back under center, and that seemed to me to been a strict coaching issue. Michigan routinely snagged top tier HS talent, and while those players never got worse at Michigan, they rarely got better. Perhaps that's what's going on at Miami? I don't follow the Canes close enough to know the particulars, but from my removed position, these QBs would probably have been better served in other programs.

OU is a particularly interesting example. For one thing, I'm not sure Stoops is the genius he's made out to be. I'm always suspicious of a QB (and a whole Offense) that has to line up and then turn to the sideline to know what play he is supposed to run. Leads me to believe he can't be trusted to read a D. Bradford has done better than I had feared, as I suspected he was a product of a superior offensive line, and when that line went south... well, so did he... and of course, he's just a rookie. Lot of time has to pass before we'll know for sure. Other OU QBs ... Jason White... Mott the Hyple... they're all pumping gas for a living. But, they were good, or even great college QBs.

I think a lot of it has to do with scheme too. System QBs routine suck in the NFL despite having thrown 1,000s of passes in college.... if they even get a look. In that respect, Miami's just fine with their offensive sets. Leading me back to the answer - must be coaching.

Conversely, if you look at Terrelle Pryor as a Freshman and Terrelle Pryor as a Juinior, you see a kid who's been coached up. You look at Tim Tebow the Freshman and Tim Tebow the Junior... or the NFL Rookie, for that matter, and you see virtually the same player. Meyer didn't teach him how to be an NFL QB, he used the kid's natural strengths, and avoided his weaknesses (which, being the son of man he didn't have, but you know what I mean) I don't know if Pryor will make it in the pros, but he's come a long way, is what I'm saying.... and even guys who came to OSU without "all the talent in the world" like Krenzel, have seen looks in the league, and stuck around for a little while... though Tress' system has yet to produce a NFL star... or... average QB, for that matter.

In any case, yes... coaching. That's where I'd look if I were you.

 

[Taosman]

People were raving about Miami QB coach Whipple last year, so what has changed? Maybe Harris just needs more work/time?

 

[Poe McKnoe]

People were raving about Miami QB coach Whipple last year, so what has changed? Maybe Harris just needs more work/time?

Whipple is the offensive coordinator (maybe the QB coach too?). I think it stems from playcalling, or at least partially. Whipple obviously wants to accomplish one thing, regardless of what his QB is actually doing on the field. If the QB isn't playing up to par (see: multiple picks), Tressel normally takes the ball out of his hands rather than continuing to toss it around.

 

[Piney]

Sometimes highly rated QB recruits just never pan out no matter how great the coach. You will find out with Marve real quick. He hasn't looked all that good with Purdue which is a more passer friendly offense.

Looking back at the game Saturday, I found more fault in Miami's WRs than Harris's throwing ability. 2 of those INTs were direct results of WRs messing up versus bad throws. And then he threw some great balls that were simply dropped and if they were caught it would have been a different game.

Also it wasn't if Harris was going against a bad defense. Ohio State will make ALOT of QBs look bad. Have done it for years.

Harris should improve as the season goes along. What he does the rest of the season will really answer your question.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

I agree with some of the sentiments above that your wideouts made Harris look worse than he actually played. I think he's come along reasonably well as a passer.

I'd be more concerned with your S&C program if I were you...

:p

 

[jlb1705]

Brock Berlin and Robert Marve have both sucked for more than one team, so I think we can safely blame the individuals rather than the Miami coaches in those cases.

 

[Zander42]

This is always a hot topic whenever a QB doesn't play as well as fans would like. TP will likely have a bad game sometime this year, hopefully we can still pull out a win when that happens, but when it does, there will definitely be QB development talk around here (put him at WR!!!!#$!@!!!).

Harris actually had a decent game. Two of his four int's were on the WR's, as has been pointed out. The first int was a bad decision. I was discussing this with a Miami fan I work with. Buckeye fans will look at that as a great play by our safety and a bit of luck in having Nate right there to get the ball, which is true. But from a 'Canes perspective, JH still threw into double coverage -> bad throw. Also the throw to Cam was on Harris.

Just out of curiosity, how highly rated are the QB that you listed there?

 

[BigWoof31]

I'll only comment on Harris, I think he would have done better elsewhere. My opinion of Randy Shannon is; great recruiter, who does little to really develop the talent, and is a poor game day coach. I thought his team was poorly prepared for Saturday.

Agree 100%. He's the perfect "CEO" type head coach. Supervise, manage recruitment, discipline and strategy and overall develop a persona for the team.

But he needs help and there is a lack of fundamentals on the offensive side of the ball at Da U.


To be complimentary, I think the defense has improved significantly from the bowl game against Wisconsin. Harris' turnovers simply broke their back in the 3rd quarter and they were totally exhausted.

 

[Bucklion]

I'll go a bit of a different way with this one, in that I agree many of these guys, and especially Harris, would be better somewhere else, but as for the reason...when was the last time Miami had a running game anyone was afraid of? Frank Gore in 04? It seems to me Miami's offense has been intermediate and vertical passing without an adequate running game for a while now, which is a bad combination. Give Harris, right now, a back who can gain 1000 yards and that defenses have to respect, and watch those 15-25 yard passes he can throw well be open all day off the play action. Hankerson could run dig routes all day.

 

[martinss01]

don't think i would pin that loss on a lack of development out of harris. might just be me, but i thought harris played a solid game against tOSU. he was under significant pressure all day, had to deal with a lot of drops and misques from receivers, and penalties hurt miami. pryor having a heck of a day didn't make him look any better either.

 

[jlb1705]

I'll go a bit of a different way with this one, in that I agree many of these guys, and especially Harris, would be better somewhere else, but as for the reason...when was the last time Miami had a running game anyone was afraid of? Frank Gore in 04? It seems to me Miami's offense has been intermediate and vertical passing without an adequate running game for a while now, which is a bad combination. Give Harris, right now, a back who can gain 1000 yards and that defenses have to respect, and watch those 15-25 yard passes he can throw well be open all day off the play action. Hankerson could run dig routes all day.

Paging Art Kehoe...

 

[sharkonwheels]

This is always a hot topic whenever a QB doesn't play as well as fans would like. TP will likely have a bad game sometime this year, hopefully we can still pull out a win when that happens, but when it does, there will definitely be QB development talk around here (put him at WR!!!!#$!@!!!).

Harris actually had a decent game. Two of his four int's were on the WR's, as has been pointed out. The first int was a bad decision. I was discussing this with a Miami fan I work with. Buckeye fans will look at that as a great play by our safety and a bit of luck in having Nate right there to get the ball, which is true. But from a 'Canes perspective, JH still threw into double coverage -> bad throw. Also the throw to Cam was on Harris.

Just out of curiosity, how highly rated are the QB that you listed there?

I'm actually OK with how he played - he was MAJORLY let down by his WR's, and at times by the OL.

But I also noticed, that he sometimes had to like literally CONSCIOUSLY fight against making a stupid decision/throw.

Tks for the answers - THAT'S what I was looking for...