LB Coach James Laurinaitis (2x B1G DPOY, 2006 Nagurski, 2007 Butkus, 2008 Lott, 3x All-American, OSU HOF)

[MililaniBuckeye]

From a linebacking standpoint, he sure does.

Crable: 53 tackles, 19.5 TFL for 56 yards, 5.5 sacks for 29 yards, 1 PBU, 2 QBH, 3 FF. 1 FR

Laurinaitis: 63 tackles, 5.5 TFL for 23 yards, 4.0 sacks for 22 yards, 1 PBU, 0 FF, 0 FR, 2 INT

So Laurinaitis has 10 more tackles than Crable and 2 more picks, while Crable has 14 TFL more, 1.5 sacks more, 3 FF more, and 1 FR more. So why would Crable not have any business being on a list of best LB in the country? Aside from the obvious Ohio State bias? Special teams blocking has nothing to do with Shawn's LB ability

I don't give a shit about one clown's individual stats on a shit defense. Was Craple even on the Nagurski list last year, let alone win it is his first ifrst season of playing? Laurinaitis is the first junior captain under the Tressel Regime and is the clear leader if the nation's top defense. Ask any head coach who he'd want to have between the two and virtually all would pick Laurinaitis...

 

[SNIPER26]

Crable would have more TFL/FF/Sacks when he plays defensive END as well... He's used much more as a rush end than a linebacker. Blitz Animal off the edge and lets see what kind of stats he has. If we're talkin straight linebacker play then yes Crable has no business being on the list, but if we're talkin Linebacker/lineman then Crable can be thrown in.

Also how the hell does PSU have two linebackers on that list???? If they're going to do that then you should also throw in Marcus Freeman because I'd take him over either of Lee/Connor anyday! If a PSU backer wins the award this year it'll be another crime.... Poz over Hawk was an embarressment.

A) Laurinaitis wouldn't have as many TFL as Crable does even if he played DE sometimes. He's not as much of a force on the DL as Crable is. He's significantly better than Shawn in pass coverage, but not rushing the QB. So Crable has no business being on the list because he's got what, 10 tackles less than uber all-world James Laurinaitis? Give me a break.

B) Sean Lee: 79 tackles, 10 TFL for 28 yards, 3.5 sacks for 23 yards, 0 INT, 0 FF, 1 FR, 1 PBU
Dan Connor: 76 tackles, 10.5 TFL for 49 yards, 5 sacks for 43 yards, 0 INT, 0 FF, 0 FR, 5 PBU

Marcus Freeman: 48 tackles, 6.5 TFL for 17 yards, 1.5 sacks for 9 yards, 0 INT, FF N/A, FR N/A, 3 PBU

What exactly, outside of you being a Buckeye fan and liking Freeman because he's on your team, would make you "take Freeman over Connor/Lee" anyday?

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

What exactly, outside of you being a Buckeye fan and liking Freeman because he's on your team, would make you "take Freeman over Connor/Lee" anyday?

You'll see for yourself on Nov 17th...

 

[SNIPER26]

I don't give a shit about one clown's individual stats on a shit defense. Was Craple even on the Nagurski list last year, let alone win it is his first ifrst season of playing? Laurinaitis is the first junior captain under the Tressel Regime and is the clear leader if the nation's top defense. Ask any head coach who he'd want to have between the two and virtually all would pick Laurinaitis...

Funny how after stats come out to support my argument you get all defensive and change your argument...rather amusing. What does the Nagurski list from last year have anything to do with this year?

I didn't say I'd rather have Crable, did I? (Cute pun on words, hilarious Please tell me where I said that. You're the one who said he had no business on the list, and then when stats proved your argument wrong, you get all defensive. I'd rather have Crable as a OLB/rush end on 3rd down, but I'd take Laurinaitis in the middle and if I had to pick one, I'd be inclined to go with James. Calm down slugger

 

[bukIpower]

Anyways... I think James should in the Butkus award, but you know there are a lot of good players out there that like I pointed out will definatly put up far better stats. However look at it this way... OSU has a very talented defense as a whole and when the players around you are very talented its tough to have the stats. However, he's the leader of this talented defense and that can't be stressed enough

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

Funny how after stats come out to support my argument you get all defensive and change your argument...rather amusing. What does the Nagurski list from last year have anything to do with this year?

I didn't say I'd rather have Crable, did I? (Cute pun on words, hilarious Please tell me where I said that. You're the one who said he had no business on the list, and then when stats proved your argument wrong, you get all defensive. I'd rather have Crable as a OLB/rush end on 3rd down, but I'd take Laurinaitis in the middle and if I had to pick one, I'd be inclined to go with James. Calm down slugger

Thats great. Thank you for showing us all those wonderful individual stats. You can make stats say pretty much whatever you want them to. Individual stats are useless when we are talking about who is a better linebacker/football player. Is Glen Dorsey not as good a football player as Crable because he doesn't put up the same stats? I am sure if Laurinaitis had to make 20 tackles a game, he would do it every game. But he doesn't. Individual stats dont mean shit.

Let me show you the only stat that DOES matter:

Michigan: 6-2, allowing 19.6 ppg, 328.3 ypg, 200.1 passing ypg, 128.1 rushing ypg
Ohio State: 8-0, allowing 7.9 ppg, 208.5 ypg, 146.1 pypg, 62.4 rypg



Crable is a pretty good football player, sure. But he isn't in JL's league.

 

[Taosman]

Crable is having a great senior season and should make All American.
But, Lil Animal is just on another level of play and is arguably, the best defensive player in the country.
Butkus, unless Connor has a monster game against us.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Since this has turned into Crable vs. Laurinaitis:

Having seen him play, it is my opinion that Crable has improved dramatically over last year. He is playing pretty well.

From my perspective though, this is a little like the pissing matches that people used to have with xrayrandy. Stats are fine as far as they go. As I have shown, the most commonly used stats have a fairly high correlation to winning %. But there are some things that stats just don't tell you, especially when comparing players on different teams with different levels of support who are used in very different ways.

One stat that might add some fodder for discussion (but would still not prove anything) is the amount of yardage gained by the opponent on plays when each player made a tackle. In other words, has Crable made 53 tackles on plays that have averaged 4 yards while Laurinaitis has made 63 tackles on plays that have averaged 2 yards?

I have absolutely no intention of taking the time to compile the numbers. But I think we all know what they would be.

To me it comes down to this: Watch them play.

Laurinaitis vs. Crable is a microcosm of tOSU defense vs. other Big Ten defenses. As I've shown in the Official Statistical Analysis thread, the Big Ten is playing good defense this year (contrary to popular belief). But tOSU, and James Laurinaitis, are playing unbelievable defense.

 

[daveeb]

Crable is a good player, and is surely going to be drafted. Although I have personally been more impressed with Brandon Graham on the TSUN defense, Crable is definitely a solid playmaker who has stepped up on a formerly so-so defense after two huge losses, where they were outscored 73-39.

I look at it this way: Orlando Pace had candidates behind him for every award. Troy Smith had candidates behind him for the Heisman. They pick the best defensive players in the nation, and announce them as candidates for an award. And that is what Crable is, a candidate. That is what Laurinaitis is, a candidate.

I personally think James will win, since he is the leader of the best defense in the league. But jeez, give it a rest. Crable is good too. Connor is good too.

 

[lvbuckeye]

A) Laurinaitis wouldn't have as many TFL as Crable does even if he played DE sometimes. He's not as much of a force on the DL as Crable is. He's significantly better than Shawn in pass coverage, but not rushing the QB. So Crable has no business being on the list because he's got what, 10 tackles less than uber all-world James Laurinaitis? Give me a break.

B) Sean Lee: 79 tackles, 10 TFL for 28 yards, 3.5 sacks for 23 yards, 0 INT, 0 FF, 1 FR, 1 PBU
Dan Connor: 76 tackles, 10.5 TFL for 49 yards, 5 sacks for 43 yards, 0 INT, 0 FF, 0 FR, 5 PBU

Marcus Freeman: 48 tackles, 6.5 TFL for 17 yards, 1.5 sacks for 9 yards, 0 INT, FF N/A, FR N/A, 3 PBU

What exactly, outside of you being a Buckeye fan and liking Freeman because he's on your team, would make you "take Freeman over Connor/Lee" anyday?

for the same reason that Ohio State is ranked dead last in kickoff returns.

 

[JohnnyCockfight]

One stat that might add some fodder for discussion (but would still not prove anything) is the amount of yardage gained by the opponent on plays when each player made a tackle.

I think an even more telling stat would be how many snaps for which each player has been on the field. I have a sneaking suspicion that Crable has had significantly more chances to pad his stats than has Laurinaitis (it wouldn't surprise me if Crable has had twice as many defensive snaps as James). Taken in that context, their respective production efficiencies on the field wouldn't be close, IMO.

 

[Dryden]

I think an even more telling stat would be how many snaps for which each player has been on the field. I have a sneaking suspicion that Crable has had significantly more chances to pad his stats than has Laurinaitis (it wouldn't surprise me if Crable has had twice as many defensive snaps as James). Taken in that context, their respective production efficiencies on the field wouldn't be close, IMO.

Bingo. Laurinaitis, Freeman, and Grant have not had to play beyond the first series of the second half in 5 of the 8 games they have played.

Here's Laurinaitis's total tackles (solo + assisted) for the games you might say he could have "mailed it in" for the few series he even got on the field:

YSU - 7
Akron - 7
Northwestern - 7
Purdue - 5
Kent St - 4

Here's his numbers from the games where he went out to prove something:

Washington - 8 tackles, 2 INTs, 1 sack
Minnesota - 14 tackles, 3 TFLs
Michigan St - 12 tackles, 1 TFL, 1 sack

The heck with Sean Lee, Dan Connor, J Lehman, Shawn Crable, and whoever elses' numbers ...

Laurinaitis doesn't have lower numbers because he's a less dominant player. He has lower numbers because he plays for a more dominant, deeper team.

 

[NightmaresDad]

Funny how after stats come out to support my argument you get all defensive and change your argument...rather amusing. What does the Nagurski list from last year have anything to do with this year?

I didn't say I'd rather have Crable, did I? (Cute pun on words, hilarious Please tell me where I said that. You're the one who said he had no business on the list, and then when stats proved your argument wrong, you get all defensive. I'd rather have Crable as a OLB/rush end on 3rd down, but I'd take Laurinaitis in the middle and if I had to pick one, I'd be inclined to go with James. Calm down slugger

dude, you have fallen into the same trap that all fans who use stats to compare players fall into. If you've seen them both play, then there is a clear choice.

What the stats you have quoted don't show is the number of plays taken to gain said stats. We rotate our LBs like crazy - especially early in the season when guys like Crable are building their stats. Plus, our D forces 3-and-outs so they aren't on the field for as many plays.
It's like the "Spielman had 29 tackles against scUM" stat - I love Spielman to death, but our "D" couldn't get off the field and Jamie Morris ran for over 200 yards. If Spiels would have gotten some help up front, and if his tackles would have been closer to the LOS, then he wouldn't have had nearly as many tackles, but our D would have been much more effective.

Should Crable be on the watch list? Sure, because he is a very good player, although somewhat specialized. Plus, the media folks who determine these things pretty much go by stats anyway. The TFL stat is the one that grabs your eye and indicates he is an "impact player".

 

[osugrad21]

CPD

Ohio State linebacker Laurinaitis to showcase skills



Friday, October 26, 2007 Doug Lesmerises

Plain Dealer Reporter
Columbus- Two years ago at Penn State, Ohio State linebacker James Laurinaitis stood on the sideline in awe.
"I remember being a fan and just watching a lot of great linebackers on the field," said Laurinaitis, then a freshman backup. "It was a good game to be a part of as a young linebacker, trying to watch them, how they tried to do it on a big stage."
While Penn State beat the Buckeyes, 17-10, to wipe out Ohio State's last hope of a national title, something else was decided as well. With a 14-tackle night that was a showcase of linebacking at its best, Paul Posluszny won the Butkus Award, given annually to the nation's best linebacker, with his performance on national television. Even Penn State coach Joe Paterno admitted Posluszny couldn't have played any better.




Cont..

 

[VegasBuckeye]

Our Defense played well tonight but the only time I seen JL is when he was getting dominated by Penn State linemen :( Hopefully saving the best for last(regular season game of his OSU career)