Interesting Ideas in Education

[Jagdaddy]

There's been so much grade inflation the last twenty years that GPA without the context of class rank is meaningless. Now a lot of high schools are saying that class rank is unfair and that they're going to stop reporting class rank to universities. BS, if you ask me. Just another sad, example of the Lake Wobegon attitude where every child is believed to be above average and their self-esteem is of paramount importance, and if the hs doesn't bow to this idea then the parents will sue.

What's the opinion of some of the hs teachers out there?

The other side-effect of limiting competition is that without merit-based winning and losing to organize us hierarchically, which as basically fancy apes we're always going to do one way or another, we drift into being a "face" culture in which image, monetary resources, or "coolness" substitutes for achievement as the mechanism of hierarchical social organization. We still have winners and losers, which is supposedly the negative effect of competition, but how we select them is more subjective and less fair and therefore more likely to stoke resentments among the losers. Also, since much of the rest of the world (i.e., China and India) isn't going to abandon competition just because we do, we're likely to be ill-equipped to maintain our lofty standing in the world in the future. As a sidenote, I also believe that the removal of legitimate avenues for pariticipatory competition for both children and adults has a lot to do with the excessive competition by proxy of rabid sports fans and overbearing little league parents.

 

[martinss01]

An interesting perspective would be to look at the respective tax bases/ rates in correlation w/ grades (and the difficulty of obtaining them). For example, many of the "harder" schools probably have a higher tax base in that district. I'll use grads example. The St. Charles parent probably pays higher property taxes, and it will be more difficult to earn the tax credit, therefore it is an increased burden, and vice versa.... And I just got interrupted and forgot where I was going with this post. Damn. Something about tax breaks for the poor or something and it actually being a good idea and stuff... Feel free to steal this idea and make some use out of it. I suck. That is all.

if you make a million billion dollars and get taxed to the high heavens/or don't... you get 1k back if your kid doesn't get in trouble and gets straight A's. (well, whatever it is we determine straight A's to be anyway :p)

if your kid achieves less than that, you get a % of it. if your kid does really bad... you pay a % of it to a combined max of 1k (would likely need an income bracket on the low levels to keep from forcing people into poverty). sure it will affect some more than others. sure some will have a better chance than others. but then, at what point has life ever been fair and why on earth should any parent need an incentive to do everything in their power to get their kid to do well in school/life?

 

[buckeyegrad]

one last question. why is your biggest conscern over whether or not your getting a reward for how well your child does in school "whether or not someone else might have an easier go of it"? you SHOULDN'T need any incentive at all. let alone worry that such an incentive might be easier for someone else to obtain...

The concern is raised because of the politics involved in such a proposal. Like I said, I support the general idea. However, if one group believes others will have an easier time achieving the benefit, especially if that group is already privileged and has connections to political elites, it is unlikely to ever pass the legislature.

Furthermore, and this gets to a more central belief of mine that really goes beyond your idea, but since it is raised: I believe all education should be privatized and a state-supported voucher system should be used to fund individual's education. Hence, the idea of government incentives, while good when public education exists, is not the ultimate answer to the problem in my mind. Privatization will force parents to be better consumers than they are now of their childrens' education and hence more involved.

Oh...as for my childrens' education, believe me, I don't need a financial incentive to make sure I am involved and they receive the very best my wife and I can afford. After all, I am a professional educator, so I understand its importance. In addition, going along with my comments in the smoking and motorcycle helmet threads, I don't need the government supporting and curtailing my behavior to know what choices need to be made that benefit me and my family best.

 

[martinss01]

The concern is raised because of the politics involved in such a proposal. Like I said, I support the general idea. However, if one group believes others will have an easier time achieving the benefit, especially if that group is already privileged and has connections to political elites, it is unlikely to ever pass the legislature.

it deeply saddens me to say it, but your likely correct. the only saving grace it might have would be, would lower crime rates and increased performance in schools be enough to get them to overlook the plausible difficults to make the cut between groups?

my real hope would be that people would see this as a pat on the back for doing their jobs. that the competition would be to help their children achieve to their full potential. not another way to "keep up with the jones'".

Furthermore, and this gets to a more central belief of mine that really goes beyond your idea, but since it is raised: I believe all education should be privatized and a state-supported voucher system should be used to fund individual's education. Hence, the idea of government incentives, while good when public education exists, is not the ultimate answer to the problem in my mind. Privatization will force parents to be better consumers than they are now of their childrens' education and hence more involved.

are you in favor of charter schools as well? my understanding (and keep in mind im not "in the know" by any stretch of the imagination), is that vouchers are what is pushing charter schools. i was also under the impression that teachers were very anti charter school. is that an incorrect statment?

Oh...as for my childrens' education, believe me, I don't need a financial incentive to make sure I am involved and they receive the very best my wife and I can afford. After all, I am a professional educator, so I understand its importance. In addition, going along with my comments in the smoking and motorcycle helmet threads, I don't need the government supporting and curtailing my behavior to know what choices need to be made that benefit me and my family best.

i would imagine that the mass majority of parents on this board are involved in their children's life. so my comments on that really weren't directed towards anyone here. i kinda figured you were a teacher. now that i know... i plan to harass you incessantly with quesitons :p. do you feel that a lack of parental involvement is a significant problem in your classroom? if so, what do you suggest as a solution?

 

[Jagdaddy]

Privatization will force parents to be better consumers than they are now of their childrens' education and hence more involved.

This makes a lot of sense in theory. The real world effect seems likely to be increasing educational and social inequality as the parents who already take an interest in their children's education and themselves have the educational background and foresight to research education providers and do the best they can for their kids while those with fewer resources or less ability to do such research as well as the simply ignorant, stupid, apathetic, or poor don't do that and their kids get screwed. Maybe that's okay (it certainly could be argued to be a morally correct outcome in which parental "good/wise" behavior is rewarded and "bad/dumb" behavior is punished) and I'm all for free markets abd choice generally, but in this case the punishment for parental "bad/dumb" behavior is levied on children for the misfortune of being born to the wrong parent, and I have a hard time with that. Also, education aside, there's a socialization benefit IMO to having large numbers of kids have fairly similar educational experiences in public schools. Choice is one thing, but the elimination of public schools is another.