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Indy 500 Congrats to Sam Hornish Jr.

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BKB you make some valid points. There is a certain mystique about the risks the drivers take. Even at 220 there is little room for error. But I think that after the deaths of a few drivers and Stan Fox's horrible crash in turn one they felt a need to slow them down. I agree with the call, I'm not here to lobby for the IRL/CART about thier safety rules and requirements just trying to point out why they slowed them down.
 
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scarletandgrey said:
BKB you make some valid points. There is a certain mystique about the risks the drivers take. Even at 220 there is little room for error. But I think that after the deaths of a few drivers and Stan Fox's horrible crash in turn one they felt a need to slow them down. I agree with the call, I'm not here to lobby for the IRL/CART about thier safety rules and requirements just trying to point out why they slowed them down.
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If Fox is the crash I'm thinking of, it was nasty for sure, that';s what happens when you turn right (Well, when something breaks making you turn right) I thought he was dead right there... Jacques Villenueve won the race, as I recall.

ANyway, yeah, I cant seriously argue against safety, but there were gawdawful wrecks for the entire history of the event... hell, in the 50s the cars were basically made of iron, wouldn't break up at all... tumbling down the track... Back even earlier, guys would routinely crash and end up sliding across the track (of course, the speeds we slower then..) and such.

In fact, for as awesome as the speeds were circa 1995, the death rate was remarkably low. Injury rate was pretty low too, if memory serves.
 
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tedginn05 said:
Fastest Qualifying Speed:
  • 237.498 mph / 382.216 km/h, one lap, Arie Luyendyk, 1996
  • 236.986 mph / 381.392 km/h, four-lap average, Arie Luyendyk, 1996
Fastest Race Lap:Fastest Unofficial (Practice) Lap:
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All with 1 year old, or even older cars, with the Ford engine boost turned way too high in 1996 as an effort to try and prove CART wrong. Safety wasn't a big deal from the beginning with the IRL. But at least they were old CART cars, and not the crapwagons they have todays. Those '96 overboosted engines, and todays IRL cars downforce would have unhealthy consequences beyond any doubt.

From what I remember 1996 wasn't without serious injury and death at the Indy 500 too. Hardly a coincidence from there on out with Tony George and the IRL.
 
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Dublin Buckeyes said:
All with 1 year old, or even older cars, with the Ford engine boost turned way too high in 1996 as an effort to try and prove CART wrong. Safety wasn't a big deal from the beginning with the IRL. But at least they were old CART cars, and not the tub buckets they have todays. Those '96 overboosted engines, and todays IRL cars downforce would have unhealthy consequences beyond any doubt.

From what I remember 1996 wasn't without serious injury and death at the Indy 500 too. Hardly a coincidence from there on out.
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I added this link to my original post(The one you just quoted)...

Fastest Laps of the Race(1951-2005)

I find a huge jump in speed from 1988 to 1989. What happened there.
 
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scarletandgrey said:
BKB you make some valid points. There is a certain mystique about the risks the drivers take. Even at 220 there is little room for error. But I think that after the deaths of a few drivers and Stan Fox's horrible crash in turn one they felt a need to slow them down. I agree with the call, I'm not here to lobby for the IRL/CART about thier safety rules and requirements just trying to point out why they slowed them down.
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The problem with that thinking is that 1995 was when Stan Fox was hurt, and when everyone saw his legs outside the cockpit. Yet the IRL, the very next year used those antiquated cars with even higher boost to set the Indy track record that stands to this day.

So it is about IRL/CART, it is at the very heart of this issue. If they wanted to slow them down fine, but the safety factor has not increased because the style of racing they now produce is not likened to safety of driver or spectator. As witnessed by debris flying into the stands this past weekend at Indy.
 
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tedginn05 said:
I added this link to my original post(The one you just quoted)...

Fastest Laps of the Race(1951-2005)

I find a huge jump in speed from 1988 to 1989. What happened there.
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After Rick Mears won in 1988 the track was resurfaced, and increased competition from Porsche, Chevy and many other manufacturers in CART at the time cause speeds to increase.

The track was also resurfaced after Jacques Villeneuves victory, but before you say that is why the IRL cars when faster in 1996, it is common knowledge that the track was not 'sped up' because the paving that took place was mostly to help the track survive the Brickyard 400 Nascar race which began to take place in 1994. A new mix surface was used not to help provide more grip for the IRL cars but to be a harsher surface to help take the weight and forces of the Nascars.

So actually, the surface should have slowed the IRL cars in 1996, but with the ignore of safety, and increase in boost the IRL pushed beyond the CART records.
 
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Dublin Buckeyes said:
The problem with that thinking is that 1995 was when Stan Fox was hurt, and when everyone saw his legs outside the cockpit. Yet the IRL, the very next year used those antiquated cars with even higher boost to set the Indy track record that stands to this day.

So it is about IRL/CART, it is at the very heart of this issue. If they wanted to slow them down fine, but the safety factor has not increased because the style of racing they now produce is not likened to safety of driver or spectator. As witnessed by debris flying into the stands this past weekend at Indy.
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Agree but it was thier initial goal to provide the drivers with more saftey. That's my point. That and the fact that the race is still ran at a level of competiveness that is still worthwhile to watch. You make it out to be that if they aren't driving at speeds in excess of 230 it's not a race anymore.

Yes maybe they did fail in thier attempt to make racing a safer sport. But maybe one day they'll get it right. It looks to be that in your eyes though the only way it'll ever be right again is if they do away with the IRL all together and make it a CART sanctioned race again.
 
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scarletandgrey said:
Agree but it was thier initial goal to provide the drivers with more saftey. That's my point. That and the fact that the race is still ran at a level of competiveness that is still worthwhile to watch. You make it out to be that if they aren't driving at speeds in excess of 230 it's not a race anymore.
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That was never a goal, still isn't. They claim there are no issues and then it leaks out that there are huge ones. That is a concern when after 10 years the owners still lie and deny any safety allegations. Only Nascar is with them in doing that. Both CART, F1, sportscars, and many other series admit flaws and vow to fix them. Yes drivers will still die, and still be injured, but to ignore facts after this long is almost like committing homicide, IMO.

It looks to be that in your eyes though the only way it'll ever be right again is if they do away with the IRL all together and make it a CART sanctioned race again.
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Yes, that would be nice if CART would, but it is not reasonable. CART, now Champ Car, is in no position to do such, nor would Tony George or the IRL want them to do that.

The problem is that during the forming of the IRL in 1994 and the inception in 1996, it was not for the 'Good of the sport.' It was not about safety, or keeping IndyCars closer to the grassroot American drivers.

It was about power, money and nothing else. The George family had a problem owning just the race. They were struck with greed and lust, and that has destabilized the open wheel world irrecoverably.

The power thrust that put IndyCars and CART on this path to distruction can only be solved with a thorough change to the power and governance of the sport. At this time I don't think CART/Champ Car nor the IRL is ready for that responsibility.

After many years unification agrees are trying to be made, however, just like in 1996, the person holding up the solutions are Tony George, and the problems are power and greed. Unfortunately for open wheel fans, the person that wants the power and runs the IRL, is about the worst leader, and is more of a divider than someone that can bring people together.

So we sit here 10 years later with minimum TV ratings, miniscule car counts, and apathetic fans. I, like many others, only have 1 man, and 1 side to blame, that is Tony George and his morally defunct racing series.
 
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Here is a nice YouTube.com video from 1994 with Tony George speaking about the IRL. Notice how well he speaks and how interested you feel. There is a reason he is the most laughed about person in all of motorsports.

Also his 'american flavor' comment is hilarious. In his 11 years, more foreign drivers have won the Indy 500 than in the previous 11 years. It's all a joke and it was and still is all about power.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=erHQmiqD8BI
 
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