Game 7: Caps vs. Canadiens

[Mike80]

I normally defer to your superior hockey knowledge jo (this is not sarcastic).. but Sid's pretty close to a complete player. He's solid defensively, at worst. Ovechkin has the physical aspect and goal scoring ability, but Sid can score goals when he wants. And he's a better passer. And he plays defense. Appears to be a fantastic captain (not saying Ovie isn't).

Ovechkin's offensive cast > Sid's offensive cast

Sid's defensive cast > Ovechkin's defensive cast

MAF playing at his potential is awesome. He hasn't done that yet this year.

I've always been on the Sid side of the fence (obviously), but now I think I can back it up without being a homer. :tongue2:

Although if we're talking about 3 zone players, Datsyuk > Crosby. Crosby is much more dominant on the offensive zone than Dats. Dats is better on defense (he had a phenomenal year this year) and they are about even with a slight edge in the neutral zone to Datsyuk. Crosby has shown a tendancy in the past of going into a bit of a shell when he gets really blasted like he did against Ottawa in the 3 OT game. Datsyuk hasn't done that in a while so that makes me think Crosby will grow out of it.

Just for reference, Yzerman didn't pay attention to playing defense until Scotty got into town in Detroit. AT that time he was 28 years old in 1993. Crosby is already well ahead of him on the defensive side of things.

He's not the next "Great One" like the NHL would want us to believe, but he's almost certainly a top 3 player of his generation. Nobody is going to ever approach Gretzky anyway.

 

[Mike80]

all that said, i dont pick either of ovie/crosby. neither play a complete game.

Datsyuk or Getzlaf?

 

[3074326]

Although if we're talking about 3 zone players, Datsyuk > Crosby. Crosby is much more dominant on the offensive zone than Dats. Dats is better on defense (he had a phenomenal year this year) and they are about even with a slight edge in the neutral zone to Datsyuk. Crosby has shown a tendancy in the past of going into a bit of a shell when he gets really blasted like he did against Ottawa in the 3 OT game. Datsyuk hasn't done that in a while so that makes me think Crosby will grow out of it.

Just for reference, Yzerman didn't pay attention to playing defense until Scotty got into town in Detroit. AT that time he was 28 years old in 1993. Crosby is already well ahead of him on the defensive side of things.

He's not the next "Great One" like the NHL would want us to believe, but he's almost certainly a top 3 player of his generation. Nobody is going to ever approach Gretzky anyway.

I actually misread jo's post.. he wasn't choosing between Sid and Ovie. Not sure how I missed that?

I'd still take Sid over anyone in the league. Not the best defensively, no, but above average compared to other PPG players. And he wins faceoffs like a machine.

 

[Mike80]

BTW that thing I said about Crosby playing tentatively? He didn't show it last night at all.

But he and Shrek are going to have to really pick it up now that Staal is out.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Depends on what your definition of "great" is I guess. No question though that Sid is pretty sound defensive player. He backchecks well and is smart with the puck in the defensive zone. Malkin is also good at backchecking, but he does more challenging in the neutral zone than Sid. But Malkin tends to take more chances with the puck in the defensive end, and sometimes, he'll give the puck away at terrible times. Sid never seems to do that. This year especially, I think Sid has elevated his overall game, including defense.

anyone of these definitions may fit...

i never said he wasnt sound, or good, but great? id throw that around at a bunch of players. the great label, to me would put him in a top 30 or so ranking. i can tell you hes improved vastly in his own zone, even in the neutral zone.

however, reality is when i say "great" i dont mean oh yea hes one of the better players on his team, i mean league wide. if you really think crosby is even one of the top 10, expand that out to 30 defensive forwards in the league, youre not with it. in fact, you probably could assemble a list of centres that play the pivot better than him in his own zone.

but, ive said it before, ill say it again. hes still young. hes still improving. he has a coach who knows the game, he has studs around him, he has a proficient supporting cast, the best hockey sidney crosby will play is still ahead of him, barring injury.

I normally defer to your superior hockey knowledge jo (this is not sarcastic).. but Sid's pretty close to a complete player. He's solid defensively, at worst. Ovechkin has the physical aspect and goal scoring ability, but Sid can score goals when he wants. And he's a better passer. And he plays defense. Appears to be a fantastic captain (not saying Ovie isn't).

Ovechkin's offensive cast > Sid's offensive cast

Sid's defensive cast > Ovechkin's defensive cast

MAF playing at his potential is awesome. He hasn't done that yet this year.

I've always been on the Sid side of the fence (obviously), but now I think I can back it up without being a homer. :tongue2:

pretty close-agreed. however, do you really think hes great in his own zone? my initial point was only that if you dont think crosby is surrounded by better players, coaches, etc, id disagree. then i questioned whether or not he was great in his defensive zone.

i didnt even know ovie had a defensive cast? all i see is 5 floating forwards looking to get up the ice.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Although if we're talking about 3 zone players, Datsyuk > Crosby. Crosby is much more dominant on the offensive zone than Dats. Dats is better on defense (he had a phenomenal year this year) and they are about even with a slight edge in the neutral zone to Datsyuk. Crosby has shown a tendancy in the past of going into a bit of a shell when he gets really blasted like he did against Ottawa in the 3 OT game. Datsyuk hasn't done that in a while so that makes me think Crosby will grow out of it.

Just for reference, Yzerman didn't pay attention to playing defense until Scotty got into town in Detroit. AT that time he was 28 years old in 1993. Crosby is already well ahead of him on the defensive side of things.

He's not the next "Great One" like the NHL would want us to believe, but he's almost certainly a top 3 player of his generation. Nobody is going to ever approach Gretzky anyway.

i think the stevie y comment is very insightful. id also agree with he has room to improve. and the nhl in gretz era was so much different than it is today it is so hard to compare. pure river hockey then, vs what you see today.

Datsyuk or Getzlaf?

id say those two both play a more "complete" game. then again up until this year ive said lidstrom was the best player in hockey. (for the last 8 or so years? id have to go back to define the start, but its hard to say off the top of my head)

I actually misread jo's post.. he wasn't choosing between Sid and Ovie. Not sure how I missed that?

I'd still take Sid over anyone in the league. Not the best defensively, no, but above average compared to other PPG players. And he wins faceoffs like a machine.

which has been an improvement for him over the last few years. i think hell continue to grow and improve. im not convinced the best players show up the best in the stat sheet....

BTW that thing I said about Crosby playing tentatively? He didn't show it last night at all.

But he and Shrek are going to have to really pick it up now that Staal is out.

staal is massively underestimated/undervalued by the casual fan. though he may have some limitations offensively (some of which maybe due to shifts taken, linemates, situation matchups, the fact that so many of his shifts start out in the nz, or dz, etc) but what he can bring to the table will be missed a lot

 

[3074326]

pretty close-agreed. however, do you really think hes great in his own zone? my initial point was only that if you dont think crosby is surrounded by better players, coaches, etc, id disagree. then i questioned whether or not he was great in his defensive zone.

Great? No. But I think he's above average considering the amount of points he puts up.

I think as a whole, Ovechkin has more pure talent around him. But the Pens' system and defense makes up for that when it counts. Bill Guerin with Sid and Fedotenko with Malkin are not helping them in any way. I have no doubt in my mind that Guerin held Sid back from 115+ points this year. He missed so many open nets from perfect feeds.

I've said this a couple times on here, but it should be noted again. How bad did Mike Green look on defense?

Just makes that terrible Geico commercial even more ridiculous. "Mike Green's a great defenceman. We all know that." lulz

He was a Norris nominee.

EDIT: I should note that if Crosby keeps playing like he did in game 2, we don't get to the next round. He was bad. Wasn't helping my argument about defense at all.. haha. Made some stupid, stupid passes too. He's always made a lot of risky passes, many that got intercepted, but these were borderline retarded.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

mike green is a defencemen?

 

[3074326]

mike green is a defencemen?

A great one. And we all know that.

Mike Green - Official Fansite

Nice lack of updates since the playoffs started. :tongue2:

 

[jimotis4heisman]

hes probably fishing/drinking/golfing.


but jokes aside he reminds me of bryan berard (pre eye injury days). itll be interesting to watch him develop, if he does. lets just leave it that hes a threat on the ice at all times, and thats a compliment and an insult at the same time...