Former Dir. of FB Performance Eric Lichter (Official Thread)

[MUBuck]

Onething, I agee with you about is the speed training but, I don't think you got my post or mis-understood me but, a change of how long you train one way is wrong. If you want any benefits/ improvements for a player you would need to change to a weekly type of training and
some doing more and some do least. It would only help with the body recovery time so he could continue the hard as heck training but,each player would have to be trained DIFFERENTly for size and needs.
.Doing strength/sprint stuff all the time would break your body down and take away from your positives. Your way is like old style training. You don't train like that now a days You have to change your work out system back and forth and Lichter would know and he does that with most the players except, the lineman.
You never train the group/team the same stuff. Thats what your missing.Take a look at the linemen and how many look in shape, THE FRESHMAN yes and why? Because, OSU finally is adjusting with the change of the game with that type of recruiting.
How many Orlando Paces come along so,the other recruits have to be smaller/faster too make up for not being another PACE.
I'm not sure if you follow what type of big players OSU are recruiting now but, very agile, athletic,leaner and faster. The game has changed so much that all the top programs have too. I wouldn't be surprised if OSU goes with smaller/faster LB'ERS to adjust with the spread offense since, thats the way the game is being played now. For how long, no idea.
Like Moeller/hines playing OLB and the bigger LB'ERS like what we have being moved down to DE like we have witnessed with Gibson.
The reason I brought up different type of sport activities because, each player reacts differently for the needed help from training. For ex, some big players would do yoga/pilate and walk in water or swim to avoid any Knee/joints/ligament damages or pain some the opposite.

anyway the time has changed from what we were told or taught . 20 years from now people will laugh at us like I laugh at the old ways from a the old ways

I appreciate the response, and what you are saying isn't uncommon, it just isn't the best proven way. I'll trust in the research.

 

[akronbuck]

I appreciate the response, and what you are saying isn't uncommon, it just isn't the best proven way. I'll trust in the research.

My first post was about Lichter's way of training the players. He trains them all the same way and thats wrong. You bring up doctors well, I'm sorry about that but, most of them have different beliefs whats the best. I have 3 relatives, my best friend and the guy that taught me are doctors but, he still does both. NUTS and they still differ in some ways.:) EGOS
About the doctors research you follow. They should speak up B 6 , B12 , some vitamins and healthy food for your body to recover faster and better because, they're legal.I've never heard a doctor bad mouthing them.Look how many doctors make money off sponsoring some type of production for them . About doctors , I see doctors like I'm dying again and I bring up the stuff I take and do. Everything I do is monitored by my doctors so I would take that serious. I check with other doctors a lot too to make sure everything is fine. DOCTORS hate that:)

 

[bukIpower]

This isn't my opinion. Open up an exercise physiology book if you really want to learn about the science behind power training.

By the way, you can't get energy from vitamins or minerals, so you in fact do not get energy from B6 or B12.

And yes, creatine IS a necessity. The CP pathway is how you get virtually all of your ATP production in exercises from 5-10 seconds in duration. The better trained an athlete, the more that time frame elongates.

I didn't say stretching or yoga or any of those workouts were wrong, I said aerobic training is counterproductive to power athletes. Maybe I was unclear, but my point was that training at anything besides maximal effort is not worthwhile.

Again, not my opinion, this is the opinion of the ex. phys. experts that write textbooks.

Fitness is what I do for a living right now, and in order to have the qualifications I have you need to know most of those books you speak of man. I don't need to be told to check the books, because quite frankly I know them already. You've told me to hit the books, and told Akronbuck he's straight up "wrong". He's here stating an opinion, and i'm here to just point out there's many ways (including your way) to do things. So lighten up and don't take this so personal.

Regaurding the B vitamins, they act as a catalyst in the chemical reaction that transfers energy from basic food elements to the body. So they do indeed give you a source of energy. Fuel source? No definately not, but look at many energy drinks or Redlines ect and you'll see disguisting amounts of B6 or b12. Again, you're right creatine is better as a FUEL source, but Akronbuck is also partly right as well. Because they have great effects on your immune system as well which can help recovery somewhat.

Creatine yes in an anaerobic state is a prefered fuel source (ATP) as well as glucose. However, Athletes do not need it to play football. I've never taken creatine in my life while I played football, and i'd venture to guess many others have done the same as well. It's why it's called a supplement, because you can add it if you want it.

Football players are Athletes, not just power oriented. Excelleration, speed, agility, balance, and yes power are big parts of being a football player. If you train the body only one certain way, such as power, you're ignoring so much more that can also be done.

Look I agree with pretty much a lot of things you're saying. Such as creatine, and the also the need for power/explosiveness. However the one thing i've learned in my profession, like Akronbuck said, is everyone is completely different. Things should be much more individualized for certain types of people.

Regaurdless of your response, just realize there is not a set way. I agree in your methods, because certainly it would help certain players. However, for many others it may not help as much. It's all about studying how an individual responds and then planning accordingly.

 

[MUBuck]

Fitness is what I do for a living right now, and in order to have the qualifications I have you need to know most of those books you speak of man. I don't need to be told to check the books, because quite frankly I know them already. You've told me to hit the books, and told Akronbuck he's straight up "wrong". He's here stating an opinion, and i'm here to just point out there's many ways (including your way) to do things. So lighten up and don't take this so personal.

I predicted that you were probably in some kind of fitness profession from your response. However, this is different than exercise prescription from a personal trainer to an amateur athlete or a non-athlete. The books that you know are not exercise physiology books. If they were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Regaurding the B vitamins, they act as a catalyst in the chemical reaction that transfers energy from basic food elements to the body. So they do indeed give you a source of energy. Fuel source? No definately not, but look at many energy drinks or Redlines ect and you'll see disguisting amounts of B6 or b12. Again, you're right creatine is better as a FUEL source, but Akronbuck is also partly right as well. Because they have great effects on your immune system as well which can help recovery somewhat.

You're correct, B6 and B12 serve as coenzymes in metabolism. Once again, however, they are not a source of fuel or energy, since these are one in the same. They are of course necessary, and I don't remember arguing against the suppplementation of B vitamins.

Creatine yes in an anaerobic state is a prefered fuel source (ATP) as well as glucose. However, Athletes do not need it to play football. I've never taken creatine in my life while I played football, and i'd venture to guess many others have done the same as well. It's why it's called a supplement, because you can add it if you want it.

I never said anything about creatine supplementation, by the way. Although, creatine supplementation is the most researched exercise supplement, and it has been shown to increase creatine phosphate stores. Creatine phosphate (CP) is naturally occurring in the body, and it donates its phosphate group to ADP to produce ATP.

Glucose is also used during anaerobic exercise, but it provides a smaller amount of energy than the CP pathway. The pathway in which glucose anaerobically provides energy, glycolysis, does not contribute a significant amount of ATP until about 5 to 6 seconds into the high intensity exercise.

In aerobic exercise, glucose will go through glycolysis to produce acetyl-CoA instead of lactic acid like in anaerobic exercise. The acetyl-CoA then produces ATP through the TCA cycle and the electron transport chain. This system is not used in football.

Football players are Athletes, not just power oriented. Excelleration, speed, agility, balance, and yes power are big parts of being a football player. If you train the body only one certain way, such as power, you're ignoring so much more that can also be done.

All of these attributes are related to power (you could argue against balance I suppose). These attributes are achieved by training in high-intensity, low-duration bouts. Would you achieve acceleration, speed (in a football sense of course), and agility from a 1-mile run? You would not, so why train that way?

Look I agree with pretty much a lot of things you're saying. Such as creatine, and the also the need for power/explosiveness. However the one thing i've learned in my profession, like Akronbuck said, is everyone is completely different. Things should be much more individualized for certain types of people.

Regaurdless of your response, just realize there is not a set way. I agree in your methods, because certainly it would help certain players. However, for many others it may not help as much. It's all about studying how an individual responds and then planning accordingly.

Again, this is a different animal. This isn't fitness. There are certainly a huge number of ways for training, but all of these ways should involve a high majority of anaerobic exercises and very little aerobic exercises. That is how this whole discussion was initiated. I can promise you that an athlete will not get better at football by working on their 5K time. In fact, it is detrimental to their football abilities.

I also completely agree that individuals respond differently. A training program should absolutely be focused on the athletes' need for improvement. I don't really have anything else to discuss in terms of what works for each individual, so I'll stop here. My whole discussion is purely based on the science of exercise, nothing more.

 

[bukIpower]

I still dont' know a lot about Eric but he seems to know his stuff.. However, I will say the conditioning of some of the players has been "off" from time to time, but that's got to be the players dedication as well.

Also to end the small debate. I do know the books you speak, but I think we're just on different wave lengths to be honest. I don't think you're allowing for much interpretation in exercise science, but hey everyone has their opinion. As we said Agree to disagree lol...

 

[Buckskin86]

One more note: I found it interesting that OSU strength coach Eric Lichter was not overseeing the pre-combine workouts this year, for the first time. That surprised me, as I know past players have really raved about the work Lichter has done with them.

Instead, assistant strength coach Doug Davis handled the workouts. Lichter explained it as no big deal, as Davis has worked under him for three years and knows what to do. Lichter said the feeling was he was needed more to work with the returning Buckeyes players.

I wonder if that came from Jim Tressel, who may have wanted to see his strength coach make the 2009 team his priority?

Going to Indy (Blogging the Buckeyes)

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

My first post was about Lichter's way of training the players. He trains them all the same way...

This runs directly against what several players have said in interviews.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

I still dont' know a lot about Eric but he seems to know his stuff.. However, I will say the conditioning of some of the players has been "off" from time to time, but that's got to be the players dedication as well.

That is the smartest thing that has been said recently in this thread. It comes down to performer dedication.

Im no trainer, but I am in the military so I frequent the gym at least once daily (sometimes if I have the time, Ill break off my regiment and throw in a two-a-day). I talk with fellow Airmen that hit up GNC every month, drop major dollars on supplements, vitamins and other performance enhancers; however, they dont hit it hard in the gym.

Right now my main goal is to add power and gain muscle. Im on NaNOX9 (pre-lift), Nitro-Tech (post-lift), One-A-Day Multivitamin, and I frequently take Gamma-O (testosterone). I do know that what I take wont be effective if I am not pounding the weights and eating right. All my supplements would only make me gain fat if Im chugging beers, staying up late, eating Wendy's , etc.

Bottom Line: A player can buy out GNC, but if hes not working out properly, it doesnt matter. Its all gonna come down to D-E-D-I-C-A-T-I-O-N. Listen to what some of the players and coaches have to say about whether or not guys actually do the "suggested workouts":

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlS5WHUOgwM"]YouTube - Suggested Workouts: Not So Much Or Must Do At OSU?[/ame]

 

[NP_Buckeye]

That is the smartest thing that has been said recently in this thread. It comes down to performer dedication.

Im no trainer, but I am in the military so I frequent the gym at least once daily (sometimes if I have the time, Ill break off my regiment and throw in a two-a-day). I talk with fellow Airmen that hit up GNC every month, drop major dollars on supplements, vitamins and other performance enhancers; however, they dont hit it hard in the gym.

Right now my main goal is to add power and gain muscle. Im on NaNOX9 (pre-lift), Nitro-Tech (post-lift), One-A-Day Multivitamin, and I frequently take Gamma-O (testosterone). I do know that what I take wont be effective if I am not pounding the weights and eating right. All my supplements would only make me gain fat if Im chugging beers, staying up late, eating Wendy's , etc.

Bottom Line: A player can buy out GNC, but if hes not working out properly, it doesnt matter. Its all gonna come down to D-E-D-I-C-A-T-I-O-N. Listen to what some of the players and coaches have to say about whether or not guys actually do the "suggested workouts":

YouTube - Suggested Workouts: Not So Much Or Must Do At OSU?

This could be the second smartest thing recently said in this thread...

 

[Dryden]

Football= mostly PCr cycle

PCr + ADP <--------------> ATP + Cr(PCr for all intensive purposes)
////////////creatine kinase//////////////////////////////////////////////

powers high intensity exercise for 5-10 seconds..........as was already said.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

........yes............I did just go there.

I think you missed it.
is it Intensive purposes or intents and purposes.

 

[SEREbuckeye]

GNC/supplement shops are one of the biggest money swindler's on the planet. 99%(literally) of the stuff there is nothing more than a gimmick to appeal to the eye of consumers, yet in reality all they are doing is wasting their money with things that achieve nothing.

I wouldnt go as far to say that they do nothing, that is VERY much incorrect. Yes, the are overpriced though.

It all comes down to proper nutrition, rest, supplements, and strong work ethic.

 

[BuckeyeLiger87]

Anything you can get at gnc are just as ineffective and 30% cheaper than at GNC on the internet.

 

[MUBuck]

In the research community, what 99% of them do, is deemed statistically insignificant.

Excluding protein and creatine supplements.

 

[ginn421]

Creatine would be useful assuming they are an athlete actually using the PCr cycle.

Protein supplements are mostly ineffective and not even necessary. Where people get the idea that "more" is always a good thing is bothersome.......it's an american thing. You drink a cup a milk and some slices of turkey post workout in a 3 carb: 1 protein ratio and that is more than enough for almost all athletes much less regular individuals needs. People packing down protein powders are usually doing a couple things effectively...........p.issing them down the toilet/causing excess strain on kidneys/inhibiting absorption of carbs postworkout.

I love the reverse irony of the protein packers as the excess protein that isn't needed is deaminated and sent out through the urine...........which has H20 follow it causing dehydration. The other ironic aspect is the excess proteins are also deaminated into pyruvate which creates excess citrate, which therefore leaves the mitochondria and develops...............fat. So all the excess protein essentially dehydrates you and/or adds fat.

Amen. Been trying to tell my friends and cousins in HS this for years...