Former DC Kerry Coombs (Former Cincy Bearcats Interim Head Coach)

[dragurd]

I don't know that "we" have a choice.

DB room is just decimated in terms of depth and experience from last year. Leaving the LB's in on obvious passing downs was very telling to me. Coombs and company see practice, they know what they have and they apparently have zero faith that the new guys are anywhere near ready.

Yeah we basically didn't play nickel much till the last drive of the game. I don't know what that means though. Cause either we think Werner as CB is better than our 5th DB at the moment or we trust him not to make a huge mistake more but then if that was true why go nickel and even dime on the last drive of the game...

 

[pnuts34]

Certainly the talent is significantly down from last year.

I will say we disguised man vs zone significantly better last year. I don’t know if that was a Hafley thing, but we are giving away coverages pre-snap again, which is a little disappointing. Simple motion is telling offense what defense we’re in.

Hafley was pretty creative in that regard....just bc a DB wouldn’t shadow a receiver in motion, didn’t mean we weren’t in man. They’d show zone pre-snap and actually jump into man post snap, and vice versa where they’d shadow a receiver in motion as if they were in man, to drop into zone.

Coombs is a smart guy and coached a helluva DB room in Tennessee while there. I think lack of reps (the Covid excuse) is legitimate. But I think they’re extremely basic right now, and it sucks when QBs know if it’s man or zone pre-snap bc it makes the read infinitely easier for QB. If my one wish were granted, it’d be that we’d play a little more zone in general this year, but we’d be more exotic in coverages and disguise what we’re in better. Not only would it make life harder on opposing QB’s but it’d make our secondary look a little better....and it’s nothing physical....just getting a little more creative in game-planning.

But those exotic packages are honed in the off season. Its hard to just pull them out mid season and expect great results with a group of DBs that returned 1 starter and a bulk of them have never even seen meaningful snaps last year. Hafley gets a lot of praise, and I certainly loved the guy but the fact is, he had 3 guys that are playing in the NFL now and 2 drafted in the 1st round. Coombs has Banks, Hooker and Williamson who played only garbage time minutes and I dont think Williamson or Johnson has played anything but special teams. Changing schemes is done in the off season with a ton of reps, but the time the season starts, you are who you are and can make small adjustments but I can't see Coombs making wholesale changes with only 3gms left in the regular season. Work on fundamentals and mix up zone and man like you stated, but the pass rush is going to have to step up consistently to help in that aspect as well. Cooper is wildly inconsistent, Harrison is still a project as are most of the DEs in the rotation.

 

[billmac91]

But those exotic packages are honed in the off season. Its hard to just pull them out mid season and expect great results with a group of DBs that returned 1 starter and a bulk of them have never even seen meaningful snaps last year. Hafley gets a lot of praise, and I certainly loved the guy but the fact is, he had 3 guys that are playing in the NFL now and 2 drafted in the 1st round. Coombs has Banks, Hooker and Williamson who played only garbage time minutes and I dont think Williamson or Johnson has played anything but special teams. Changing schemes is done in the off season with a ton of reps, but the time the season starts, you are who you are and can make small adjustments but I can't see Coombs making wholesale changes with only 3gms left in the regular season. Work on fundamentals and mix up zone and man like you stated, but the pass rush is going to have to step up consistently to help in that aspect as well. Cooper is wildly inconsistent, Harrison is still a project as are most of the DEs in the rotation.

Hafley probably deserves more credit than anyone for turning Arnette into a 1st Rd corner.

But these guys were all in the DB room last year, right? There’s nothing wrong with getting with Mattison and Barnes and saying “let’s go back to some of the stuff we ran last year”.

I’m not talking about exact scheme (bc we don’t have that personnel) but disguising coverages pre-snap no matter who is on field. It doesn’t take multiple first round picks in defensive backfield, to hide what coverages you are in so the QB needs to make a read post snap versus knowing the coverage pre-snap.

It sounds really basic.....and it kind of is.....but most teams struggle to hide man versus zone because motion by offense forces defenses hand to “show”. All I’m saying is it’s be great for OSU, at a minimum, to look into how they can disguise that “tell” going forward and disguise our coverages. Okudah and Arnette, as talented as they are/were, benefitted tremendously by QB’s being utterly confused of what coverage we were in.

 

[Thump]

I’ve noticed we’re back to face-guarding.

 

[billmac91]

I’ve noticed we’re back to face-guarding.

In fairness, we face-guarded a lot last year too. Just the nature of the beast, especially in today’s football, where the back shoulder 50/50 ball is so prevalent.

I’ll keep hammering it, but on multiple of Pennix’s throws, he knew the coverage pre-snap, which meant he knew where his throw was going pre-snap, and all he needed was just a little time for his receivers to get off LOS so he could then loft the pass into single coverage.

If we wanted to help our DB’s out, we’d force the QB to figure out if we are man or zone post snap so he doesn’t know exactly where he’s going with ball, prior to even having the ball in his hands.

 

[Thump]

In fairness, we face-guarded a lot last year too. Just the nature of the beast, especially in today’s football, where the back shoulder 50/50 ball is so prevalent.

I’ll keep hammering it, but on multiple of Pennix’s throws, he knew the coverage pre-snap, which meant he knew where his throw was going pre-snap, and all he needed was just a little time for his receivers to get off LOS so he could then loft the pass into single coverage.

If we wanted to help our DB’s out, we’d force the QB to figure out if we are man or zone post snap so he doesn’t know exactly where he’s going with ball, prior to even having the ball in his hands.

Or jam them more at the line.

 

[Onebuckfan]

We can play what we play but I’m in to disguising it better. Maybe we aren’t good enough to do it. Indiana showed multiple fronts we don’t we are easy to block because we do it over and over. Our OL had to think and block ..IU just had to block.

 

[mendensa]

it's an arrogance that we think we can just line up in a base defense and beat you bc we have better players. Well, they better start disguising things better, coming up with some exotic blitz packages or start changing some personnel bc they ain't foolin' anyone and it's not going to be pretty if they are lucky enough to make the CFP.

I watch a lot of their alignment pre-snap and right at the snap and the DB's in general take a lot of false steps and display poor technique. A lot of times they aren't even lined up or set when the ball is snapped (lazy) allowing clean releases and for the receivers to go where they want off the line instead of trying to get them off the stem of their route and/or disrupt the timing. Down on the secondary big-time right now.

 

[billmac91]

it's an arrogance that we think we can just line up in a base defense and beat you bc we have better players. Well, they better start disguising things better, coming up with some exotic blitz packages or start changing some personnel bc they ain't foolin' anyone and it's not going to be pretty if they are lucky enough to make the CFP.

I watch a lot of their alignment pre-snap and right at the snap and the DB's in general take a lot of false steps and display poor technique. A lot of times they aren't even lined up or set when the ball is snapped (lazy) allowing clean releases and for the receivers to go where they want off the line instead of trying to get them off the stem of their route and/or disrupt the timing. Down on the secondary big-time right now.

Not to jump on Coombs, bc again, he showed his coaching chops with the Titans, but that was the #1 fear in bringing him back to OSU.

Urban Meyer braggadociously declared OSU as a “press man” school. When you come to Ohio State you’re going to need to know how to play man coverage.

Which was a nice calling card, until we found out giving away our defense pre-snap, even with elite players, is actually quite stupid.

Enter Hafley, who from day 1 said, “I need to get to know the players, find out strengths and weaknesses, and incorporate some stuff they likely haven’t seen around here”. (I think he was referring to more zone concepts).

It’s probably unfair to tie Meyer’s bravado for man coverage and “our best will beat your best” mantra, onto Coombs, but through 4 games, it appears there are some simple fixes that would really help the secondary. A d again, IMO, a lot of it isn’t even physical.....we can get better in technique, fundamentals, etc. But just help the secondary pre-snap by not giving away so much information. Make the QB read it post snap, and hope he misidentifies what he sees, or help the pass rush get just a split second longer to get home bc QB needs to process information. Just my .02...

I will say, I knew Hafley was next level, when he’d shadow a receiver in motion across LOS, and the Bucks would send a defender in motion with him signaling we were in man. And after ball was snapped, we’d drop into a zone, and often times bring pressure from secondary (like Shaun Wade) where it wasn’t expected to come from. It was just next level thinking and outside the box.

 

[Onebuckfan]

Not to jump on Coombs, bc again, he showed his coaching chops with the Titans, but that was the #1 fear in bringing him back to OSU.

Urban Meyer braggadociously declared OSU as a “press man” school. When you come to Ohio State you’re going to need to know how to play man coverage.

Which was a nice calling card, until we found out giving away our defense pre-snap, even with elite players, is actually quite stupid.

Enter Hafley, who from day 1 said, “I need to get to know the players, find out strengths and weaknesses, and incorporate some stuff they likely haven’t seen around here”. (I think he was referring to more zone concepts).

It’s probably unfair to tie Meyer’s bravado for man coverage and “our best will beat your best” mantra, onto Coombs, but through 4 games, it appears there are some simple fixes that would really help the secondary. A d again, IMO, a lot of it isn’t even physical.....we can get better in technique, fundamentals, etc. But just help the secondary pre-snap by not giving away so much information. Make the QB read it post snap, and hope he misidentifies what he sees, or help the pass rush get just a split second longer to get home bc QB needs to process information. Just my .02...

I will say, I knew Hafley was next level, when he’d shadow a receiver in motion across LOS, and the Bucks would send a defender in motion with him signaling we were in man. And after ball was snapped, we’d drop into a zone, and often times bring pressure from secondary (like Shaun Wade) where it wasn’t expected to come from. It was just next level thinking and outside the box.

Bring pressure from the secondary how exotic. Can’t do that to Penix , he’s hall of fame. We did it to pedestrian Lawrence though.

 

[billmac91]

Bring pressure from the secondary how exotic. Can’t do that to Penix , he’s hall of fame. We did it to pedestrian Lawrence though.

I want to rewatch the tape, but I know we did send Marcus Williamson at least once and Marcus Hooker got a pressure so they did it a little.

My more obvious concern is how easy it is to “game” us when offense knows exactly what coverage they’re getting.

They dropped an easy 4th down conversion knowing we’d be in press man (and they motioned and reset WR to confirm it). And then they hit us with exact same “man beater” play only reconfiguring which WR’s ran the “pick” versus the cross route later in game for walk-in TD.

Both times we should of just let IU have access to our headset bc we told them everything they could’ve wanted to know.

 

[Onebuckfan]

I want to rewatch the tape, but I know we did send Marcus Williamson at least once and Marcus Hooker got a pressure so they did it a little.

My more obvious concern is how easy it is to “game” us when offense knows exactly what coverage they’re getting.

They dropped an easy 4th down conversion knowing we’d be in press man (and they motioned and reset WR to confirm it). And then they hit us with exact same “man beater” play only reconfiguring which WR’s ran the “pick” versus the cross route later in game for walk-in TD.

Both times we should of just let IU have access to our headset bc we told them everything they could’ve wanted to know.

Well Mattison/Combs are like me, we are old know it all, expect millennials to listen to us, slow to adapt, and what we do has worked before.Lol

 

[bukIpower]

I agree I'm seeing this a lot today that teams are just motioning someone pre snap to figure out man. Once they have man it's easy to know where the ball is going.

What we saw a TON of last year too is our secondary rotate over with the WR motion and not chase him around.

Need better disguises, better mixing of our coverages, better pressure from the ends, and we need to get Hooker some help back there.

 

[billmac91]

I agree I'm seeing this a lot today that teams are just motioning someone pre snap to figure out man. Once they have man it's easy to know where the ball is going.

What we saw a TON of last year too is our secondary rotate over with the WR motion and not chase him around.

Need better disguises, better mixing of our coverages, better pressure from the ends, and we need to get Hooker some help back there.

Traditionally, if a WR goes into motion across the formation and the secondary just “shades” over or changes depth, it’s a pretty decent tell you are in zone coverage.

If the offense puts a man in motion across the formation and you have a defender shadowing him, it’s nearly certain you are in man coverage.

The best defenses find ways to show man or zone pre-snap while not actually being in whatever it is that they’re showing.

But right now, I feel like OSU is just extremely vanilla, and even with 4*-5* recruits, you will get wrecked by well coached teams.

And to be fair to our defensive line....I actually thought they pressured Pennix quite well, and the run defense was damn near perfect. I think it’d be a helluva lot easier to get sacks, if the QB didn’t effectively have their #1 target picked out pre-snap. Playing poker is a lot easier when you know what your opponent has in their hand. Right now, offenses know exactly what cards we’re holding. This can and should be fixed relatively easily IMO.

 

[mendensa]

Traditionally, if a WR goes into motion across the formation and the secondary just “shades” over or changes depth, it’s a pretty decent tell you are in zone coverage.

If the offense puts a man in motion across the formation and you have a defender shadowing him, it’s nearly certain you are in man coverage.

The best defenses find ways to show man or zone pre-snap while not actually being in whatever it is that they’re showing.

But right now, I feel like OSU is just extremely vanilla, and even with 4*-5* recruits, you will get wrecked by well coached teams.

And to be fair to our defensive line....I actually thought they pressured Pennix quite well, and the run defense was damn near perfect. I think it’d be a helluva lot easier to get sacks, if the QB didn’t effectively have their #1 target picked out pre-snap. Playing poker is a lot easier when you know what your opponent has in their hand. Right now, offenses know exactly what cards we’re holding. This can and should be fixed relatively easily

And yet it won't be!!!