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- Thread starter JXC
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Buckeye Nut
Hall of Fame
I saw much more of a delay the first time and the fist pump and clearly waited till the tag was made unlike in the 9th where he went to the fist pump right after the extended arm and clearly not waiting for any tag to be applied.
I loved the umps after the game, they were circling the wagons like nothing else. Of course they weren't going to admit to making the wrong call, I could've predicted that before it even came out of their mouth's. Man, it had to be tough to be an Angles fan today.
I loved the umps after the game, they were circling the wagons like nothing else. Of course they weren't going to admit to making the wrong call, I could've predicted that before it even came out of their mouth's. Man, it had to be tough to be an Angles fan today.
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Eddings did mention yesterday that he didn't say 'no catch' on the play, which is something he had done on similar plays earlier in the game. That's the only legitimate beef that the Angels have. But Paul still should have made the tag, and they need to move on.
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JXC
17-4 since 2001
no...they show YOU had no clue what was going on during the play. The umpires did. Some of the questions they were asked were stupid...they were just trying to get them to say something that they could use against them. The umpires had to choose their words VERY carefully.Sober said:
And again...you all are looking into the mechanics WAY TOO MUCH. Players don't look at an umpire's mechanics...they are for the fans. I'm sorry if the fans are confused by Eddings mechanics, but the players weren't. If they say that they were, they are flat out lying. The catcher can't see the umpire...and he's not waiting to hear the umpire say "no catch." Eddings probably doesn't say, "no catch" in that situation anyway. He probably just lets the play go, as many umpires do.
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I was watching OTL at lunch (i didn't change it in time and i saw the play. figured i'd watch) and they showed the replay about 100 times from 100 different angles. I have no doubt now that it hit the ground.
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barlow1802
Troy Has Legs
The batter/runner cant walk over in the grass by the dug out and be ok to run automatically. If a tag is attempted and the batter is outside 3 feet on either side of the basebath. I hope you are reading rules somewhere and not a liscensed umpire(not trying to flame
)...also the batter is out once he goes out of play which may or may not necessairly be the dug out steps, im not sure on the specific ground rules for each stadium in the league. Maybe im wrong but I know at the HS and College level the rule book dosent say "dugout steps". Theortically a batter/runner could have a dropped 3d strike walk to the dugout steps go down to the last step and then head to first if the steps are in play, and i've seen cacthes made on dugout steps before, and cacthes made with less than two outs that results in the fielder on the steps. According to the dugout steps rule than a runner on bnase would advance 2 bases because the ball was secured in play and then carried out of play.
Reguardless he should of tagged the runner, you learn that shit in coach pitch.
)...also the batter is out once he goes out of play which may or may not necessairly be the dug out steps, im not sure on the specific ground rules for each stadium in the league. Maybe im wrong but I know at the HS and College level the rule book dosent say "dugout steps". Theortically a batter/runner could have a dropped 3d strike walk to the dugout steps go down to the last step and then head to first if the steps are in play, and i've seen cacthes made on dugout steps before, and cacthes made with less than two outs that results in the fielder on the steps. According to the dugout steps rule than a runner on bnase would advance 2 bases because the ball was secured in play and then carried out of play. Reguardless he should of tagged the runner, you learn that shit in coach pitch.
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Um, XC is a liscensed umpire I believe....and the rule says as long as you aren't on the top step of the dugout.barlow1802 said:The batter/runner cant walk over in the grass by the dug out and be ok to run automatically. If a tag is attempted and the batter is outside 3 feet on either side of the basebath. I hope you are reading rules somewhere and not a liscensed umpire(not trying to flame
Reguardless he should of tagged the runner, you learn that shit in coach pitch.
Let's see. Instead of saying they made the right call, it's apparently easier to bitch that he caught it, the umpire called him out, the batter was out of play when he headed towards the dugout. Did I miss anything else?
The only thing that should be argued here is if the ball was caught or not. I don't think it was, others might. Anything else being argued is just ridiculous based on XC's explainations of the rules.
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barlow1802
Troy Has Legs
Thats the rule? I stand corrected... but now i wonder about players making cacthes on the steps and so forth? They would be out of play too?
EDIT: XC u HS or college and what area do you do games?
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JXC, at this point, you're speculating - and I'm quoting Eddings about the 'no catch' thing. Here is his statement:
``The only thing I'm down on myself is I should have sold it either way,'' Eddings said. ``I should have either said, 'No catch,' or, if I did have a catch, that he was out.''
Obviously Paul wasn't waiting for him to say 'no catch'; but if he'd heard it, I believe he would have made a tag. My statement was that his inconsistency on saying that was the Angels 'only legitimate beef'. But all they can do is beef about it, they have no recourse from the rulebook about anything that happened.
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Thanks for the education XC - nice thread.
That may be true, but as I understand all that has bee said he has no obligation to provide that type of clarification.
I have another hypothetical question. Let's say we have a guy on first base named Fred Merkle ......
That may be true, but as I understand all that has bee said he has no obligation to provide that type of clarification.
I have another hypothetical question. Let's say we have a guy on first base named Fred Merkle ......
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JXC
17-4 since 2001
Good call BB73. I hadn't seen that quote...and I was speculating. I don't know Eddings umpire style. I personally didn't see anything wrong with his mechanics. If he had a call, he should have sold it. The catcher threw the ball to the pitchers mound pretty quickly though. I just find it funny that the catcher didn't know to tag the runner, but yet the batter knew to run. The fact still remians that Eddings mechanics didn't cause the ball to be dropped, nor cause the catcher to not tag the batter. Does the umpire have to coach the catcher at that level?
You don't know the official baseball rules. It's not whether he's in play, or out of play. And it has nothing to do with being 3 feet away from avoiding a tag. The dugouts are in play, unless a ground rule states otherwise. But if you get to the dugout after a dropped 3rd strike, then you give up your right to run and you are out. If you want to challenge me again, at least try to be right. Don't come out telling me i'm wrong, and then telling me you hope i read the rulebook and hope i'm not a liscensed umpire. I could say the same about you, but I won't, cuz i'm not a flamer.
I thought you just said you didn't believe the dugout steps rule? Now you are using it to make up other rules. If a ball is secured in play and then carried out of play, it's not a 2 base award. It's a 1 base award. This would include making a catch in the dugout, and then falling down...or making a catch in foul territory and then falling over the fence into the stands. The runners get one base. The catch still stands and the batter is out.
barlow said:I hope you are reading rules somewhere and not a liscensed umpire(not trying to flame
You don't know the official baseball rules. It's not whether he's in play, or out of play. And it has nothing to do with being 3 feet away from avoiding a tag. The dugouts are in play, unless a ground rule states otherwise. But if you get to the dugout after a dropped 3rd strike, then you give up your right to run and you are out. If you want to challenge me again, at least try to be right. Don't come out telling me i'm wrong, and then telling me you hope i read the rulebook and hope i'm not a liscensed umpire. I could say the same about you, but I won't, cuz i'm not a flamer.
barlow said:
I thought you just said you didn't believe the dugout steps rule? Now you are using it to make up other rules. If a ball is secured in play and then carried out of play, it's not a 2 base award. It's a 1 base award. This would include making a catch in the dugout, and then falling down...or making a catch in foul territory and then falling over the fence into the stands. The runners get one base. The catch still stands and the batter is out.
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The runner, Pierzynski, is a catcher who had been burned last year on the other side of a similar play, when he was the catcher for San Francisco in June, 2004. So that explains why he was sharp enough to run to first.
And I agree completely that it's Paul's mistake. I guess as a backup catcher he didn't have as much experience. A catcher obviously should always tag the runner whenever (on a 3rd strike) either the ball or your glove may have hit the dirt. It's too bad his manager wasn't a former major league catcher with playoff experience that could have taught him that ahead of time.
And thanks for dealing with those points individually in your post.
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buck e
Senior
Totally agree that it was Paul's fault. When we were in high school and a swinging 3rd strike was even close to being in the dirt, our coaches always yelled to tag him just to be safe. It got to a point where our catchers did it automatically. As a first basemen, I always went to the bag until I knew the play had ended. The other thing about the play is that I don't believe Paul ever looked back to see what the umpire called. I'm tired of people blaming it on Eddings mechanics.
By the way, XC, this is a great thread and I appreciate your insight. I friggin' love baseball, so any quality discussion is great. My only umpiring experience was little league, where the biggest controversy arose when I called a batter out on the infield fly rule and the second basemen dropped the ball and the batter started crying when he couldn't stay on first base. Oh, the humanity. The popup landed in the infield, but the kid's father started yelling at me nonetheless... he spent the rest of the game watching from his car.
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