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Do You have an Ethanol Capable car?

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AKAK

AKAK

Well, that's like hypnotizing chickens.
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Nifty Little FYI- Anyone know any more about this...

Ford Plans to Boost Ethanol Awareness

By DEE-ANN DURBIN, AP Auto Writer
45 minutes ago



DETROIT - Ford Motor Co., the nation's second biggest automaker, said Friday it is teaming up with an energy company to increase the number of ethanol fuel stations next year and said it plans a consumer awareness campaign about the benefits of ethanol.




The announcements come as high gasoline prices have driven many car buyers to opt for more fuel efficient vehicles.

Ford has about 1 million ethanol-capable vehicles on the road, including some Ford Explorer sport utility vehicles and Ford Taurus sedans, but the company said many owners may not even realize that they can use ethanol as well as traditional gasoline.

Ford said it will work with VeraSun Energy Corp. of Brookings, S.D., to convert existing fuel pumps to E85, an alternative fuel made from a blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. No financial terms were disclosed.

Ford spokeswoman Chris Morrisroe said Ford would announce the number of stations and their location later. Morrisroe said Ford plans to add fewer than 100 fuel stations in the Midwest, where ethanol is readily available because it's distilled from corn and grain.

Only about 500 of the 180,000 fuel stations in the United States currently offer E85, Ford said.

Ford plans to produce 250,000 ethanol-capable vehicles in 2006, including the Ford F-150 pickup, Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car.

"Ford is working on innovative solutions to customer concerns over high gas prices and America's overdependence on foreign oil," Ford Chairman and CEO Bill Ford said in a statement. "Ethanol is an innovative energy source straight from the heartland of America."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/2http://.../ford_ethanol0051104/ap_on_bi_ge/ford_ethanol
 
If we could just get the whole country to switch over to Ethanol we could really say fuck the Arabs. I hear Ethanol burns clean too. This is a much better option than paying farmers not to grow crops so that we don't have a surplus. If 85% of our fuel came from alcohol I would have to think corn and grain production would go way up. Good for America, bad for the Middle-east.
 
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exhawg said:
If we could just get the whole country to switch over to Ethanol we could really say fuck the Arabs. I hear Ethanol burns clean too. This is a much better option than paying farmers not to grow crops so that we don't have a surplus. If 85% of our fuel came from alcohol I would have to think corn and grain production would go way up. Good for America, bad for the Middle-east.
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There was a Newsweek article about this around 6 months ago. The biggest obstacle is getting enough stations to convert so they can handle the mixed fuel. With the profits the oil companies made last quarter, I don't think they're in a hurry to make the change.
 
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One of you web wizards figure out how much gas we use in a year and then figure out how many acres of corn we would need to replace that.

There is always that little factor of using some type of fuel to convert corn to ethanol.

I have to wonder is the fuel economy comparable between oil and ethanol?
Even if we reduce oil consumption by 10-20% I think it would be a great first step.
 
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BB73 said:
There was a Newsweek article about this around 6 months ago. The biggest obstacle is getting enough stations to convert so they can handle the mixed fuel. With the profits the oil companies made last quarter, I don't think they're in a hurry to make the change.
Click to expand...

If an oil company was smart it would get in on the ground floor of Ethanol. They are going to sell fuel no matter what, they would just get to stop paying OPEC for oil
 
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NorthShoreBuck said:
One of you web wizards figure out how much gas we use in a year and then figure out how many acres of corn we would need to replace that.

There is always that little factor of using some type of fuel to convert corn to ethanol.

I have to wonder is the fuel economy comparable between oil and ethanol?
Even if we reduce oil consumption by 10-20% I think it would be a great first step.
Click to expand...


10% would be incredible. See that's why ANWAR was such a big deal, its not so much about replacign foreign oil as it is bout that steep part of the demand curve... (I'm on the record as against ANWAR, but its gonna go, so no need to argue about that anymore)

Anyway, I posted this just in case someone can use it... and to think about this next time you get a car... Kudos to Ford, and whover else is doing this (I'm sure someone is, but, I dunno who)
 
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Note - I'm not a Mod in this forum - it may be time to shift this to the political forum.

Here's the Newsweek article. The 500 miles per gallon is for the regular gas part of the mixture only, but it shows how much the dependence on foreign oil could be eliminated.

newsweek
Imagine: 500 Miles Per Gallon

There have been many calls for programs to fund research. Beneath the din lies a little-noticed reality—the solution is already with us

By Fareed Zakaria
Newsweek March 7, 2005 issue -

The most important statement made last week came not from Vladimir Putin or George W. Bush but from Ali Naimi, Saudi Arabia's shrewd oil minister. Naimi predicted that crude prices would stay between $40 and $50 throughout 2005. For the last two years OPEC's official target price has been $25. Naimi's statement signals that Saudi Arabia now believes that current high prices are not a momentary thing. An Asian oil-industry executive told me that he expects oil to hit $75 this decade.


We are actually very close to a solution to the petroleum problem. Tomorrow, President Bush could make the following speech: "We are all concerned that the industrialized world, and increasingly the developing world, draw too much of their energy from one product, petroleum, which comes disproportionately from one volatile region, the Middle East. This dependence has significant political and environmental dangers for all of us. But there is now a solution, one that the United States will pursue actively:
a combination of electricity and alcohol-based fuels, with petroleum as only one element among many. My administration is going to put in place a series of policies that will ensure that in four years, the average new American car will get 300 miles per gallon of petroleum. And I fully expect in this period to see cars in the United States that get 500 miles per gallon. This revolution in energy use will reduce dramatically our dependence on foreign oil and achieve pathbreaking reductions in carbon-dioxide emissions, far below the targets mentioned in the Kyoto accords."

Ever since September 11, 2001, there have been many calls for Manhattan Projects and Marshall Plans for research on energy efficiency and alternate fuels. Beneath the din lies a little-noticed reality—the solution is already with us. Over the last five years, technology has matured in various fields, most importantly in semiconductors, to make possible cars that are as convenient and cheap as current ones, except that they run on a combination of electricity and fuel. Hybrid technology is the answer to the petroleum problem.

You already buy a hybrid car that runs on a battery and petroleum. The next step is "plug-in" hybrids, with powerful batteries that are recharged at night like laptops, cell phones and iPods. Ford, Honda and Toyota already make simple hybrids. Daimler Chrysler is introducing a plug-in version soon. In many states in the American Middle West you can buy a car that can use any petroleum, or ethanol, or methanol—in any combination. Ford, for example, makes a number of its models with "flexible-fuel tanks." (Forty percent of Brazil's new cars have flexible-fuel tanks.) Put all this technology together and you get the car of the future, a plug-in hybrid with a flexible-fuel tank.

Here's the math (thanks to Gal Luft, a tireless—and independent—advocate of energy security). The current crop of hybrid cars get around 50 miles per gallon. Make it a plug-in and you can get 75 miles. Replace the conventional fuel tank with a flexible-fuel tank that can run on a combination of 15 percent petroleum and 85 percent ethanol or methanol, and you get between 400 and 500 miles per gallon of gasoline. (You don't get 500 miles per gallon of fuel, but the crucial task is to lessen the use of petroleum. And ethanol and methanol are much cheaper than gasoline, so fuel costs would drop dramatically.)

If things are already moving, why does the government need to do anything? Because this is not a pure free market. Large companies—in the oil and automotive industry—have vested interests in not changing much. There are transition costs—gas stations will need to be fitted to pump methanol and ethanol (at a cost of $20,000 to $60,000 per station). New technologies will empower new industries, few of which have lobbies in Washington.

(edit - phrase missing) ... this problem is bizarre. It was military funding and spending that produced much of the technology that makes hybrids possible. (The military is actually leading the hybrid trend. All new naval surface ships are now electric-powered, as are big diesel locomotives and mining trucks.) And the West's reliance on foreign oil is not cost-free. Luft estimates that a government plan that could accelerate the move to a hybrid transport system would cost $12 billion dollars. That is what we spend in Iraq in about three months.

Smart government intervention would include a combination of targeted mandates, incentives and spending. And it does not have to all happen at the federal level. New York City, for example, could require that all its new taxis be hybrids with flexible-fuel tanks. Now that's a Manhattan Project for the 21st century.
 
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exhawg said:
If we could just get the whole country to switch over to Ethanol we could really say fuck the Arabs. I hear Ethanol burns clean too. This is a much better option than paying farmers not to grow crops so that we don't have a surplus. If 85% of our fuel came from alcohol I would have to think corn and grain production would go way up. Good for America, bad for the Middle-east.
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greenies to you for being one of the very few people i have talked to that actually realize that is a reality.

i seriously considered biodiesel for a project im currently working on for a while. problem imo with biodiesel is it doesn't like cold weather. in winter i would likely have to run a mixture of biodiesel and straight diesel. likely through different fuel tanks to ensure the engine would run long enough to heat the biodiesel to the proper temp. or install a heating mechanism for hte biodiesel. factor in the hassle of brewing your own fuel, the initial investment of ~2k and that the savings aren't exactly billions and it becomes slightly less attractive.

my first question is how does ethanol do in the mix of environments? can it hold up to super hot and super cool in engines that perform extreme tasks? we're talking about 800ftlb wtq to 500 whp engines. second problem, even if every single gas station in the US made ethanol available tomorrow morning it would take 5 years for 50 - 75% of the nation to switch to ethanol based vehicles. the average person can't afford to buy a 20 - 30k car every few years. third, we switch from petrolium based fuels and the prices will increase for them. its not like we would be divorcing ourselves from the middle east. we'd still need their fuel, just less of it. in order for them to continue to maintain the level of life they currently have they would need to charge more and more for that fuel. so don't expect fuel prices to be similar to that of a can of corn at your local market. problem #4. say goodbye to the backyard mechanic. those of you who know enough to work on a hybrid... please raise your hand. i get the strong feeling that electricuting yourself with a hybrid isn't all that compairable to doing something on your car at home. cross the wrong wires here and instead of picking yourself up off the floor wondering how the hell you got there, your wife is being consoled over your untimely demise. oh and uh... with all the "certified hybrid mechanics" out there.. im sure repair work is uber cheap!

this stuff is a looooong way from being mainstream. until it is mainstream... it being able to have any legit impact is largely wishful thinking. we'll be lucky to have a mainstream replacement for fossil fuels in the next 15 years. hybrids are getting closer. but they are easily 5 years away from being mainstream. probably more like 10.
 
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BB73 said:
Yep, it's political, but the article had a lot of good info on it, so I wanted to toss in into the thread.
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Without getting into too much detail... I will have to say that I disagree with this particular approach... The focus there is soley on reducing oil dependency... not necessarily fuel efficiency.

As was brought up earlier, there would have to be sufficient ethanol supply to pull it off (how much would corn/grain prices go up if ther was?) One of the dangers of expensive fuel is expensive food.... so what's the impact of increasing ethanol production at the expense of other crops, and feed for livestock?

Second plug in ars have to get their energy from somewhere... coal? Natural gas? (Which we getting a bit short on as well)... so not renewable, necessarily either... and might make us rely on different foreign energy sources.

Third, hybrids aren't that good... they might get better, but likely they will lead to more efficient engines that will just end up in other cars... without the damned batteries... or better batteries will be lighter and won't need the Engines (see the plug in thing) In other words, I think Hybrids are a stop gap, and you won't see them for long, except in SUV's (Which if you think about it is a better application for all that gear).... but the "lessons learned" will be valuable.
 
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martinss01 said:
my first question is how does ethanol do in the mix of environments? can it hold up to super hot and super cool in engines that perform extreme tasks? we're talking about 800ftlb wtq to 500 whp engines. second problem, even if every single gas station in the US made ethanol available tomorrow morning it would take 5 years for 50 - 75% of the nation to switch to ethanol based vehicles. the average person can't afford to buy a 20 - 30k car every few years. third, we switch from petrolium based fuels and the prices will increase for them. its not like we would be divorcing ourselves from the middle east. we'd still need their fuel, just less of it. in order for them to continue to maintain the level of life they currently have they would need to charge more and more for that fuel. so don't expect fuel prices to be similar to that of a can of corn at your local market. problem #4. say goodbye to the backyard mechanic. those of you who know enough to work on a hybrid... please raise your hand. i get the strong feeling that electricuting yourself with a hybrid isn't all that compairable to doing something on your car at home. cross the wrong wires here and instead of picking yourself up off the floor wondering how the hell you got there, your wife is being consoled over your untimely demise. oh and uh... with all the "certified hybrid mechanics" out there.. im sure repair work is uber cheap!
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http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faq.php

Here is a link to a great FAQ for the ethanol fuel.

To address your Problem #4 about backyard mechanics:
What are the differences in an FFV compared to a regular gasoline-only model?
Are different parts used?
Response:
There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV - the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV's fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon-lined fuel hoses.
Click to expand...
 
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