Discussion of Frank Miller's 300 *Spoilers*

[Buckeye Buh Nim]

How did a person witness that creature/act, if it was in the middle of the Persian camp?

I didn't mind the other exaggerations you mentioned.

That I don't know. But how would anyone know that the generals were punished at all? Could be a spy in the camp, could be that Xerxes made sure the Greeks saw him punish his generals?

 

[TheStoicPaisano]

The speeches were pretty lousy, save the queen's to the counsel. I assume they were staying true to the graphic novel text, but they were weak.

I think it'd be prudent to note that Gorgo's subplot with Det. McNulty (for my The Wire fans) was one of the few scenes written specifically for the movie. Miller's strong point has never been dialogue.

Lena Headey is amazingly beautiful.

 

[jwinslow]

...spoiler alert .............................................
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Why did it take a year for greece to unite and fight Xerxes? Wouldn't he have invaded immediately after the 300 fell?

 

[Flocka]

...spoiler alert .............................................
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Why did it take a year for greece to unite and fight Xerxes? Wouldn't he have invaded immediately after the 300 fell?

Maybe because they weren't supposed to go in the first place? IDK, good question though.

 

[Taosman]

...spoiler alert .............................................
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Why did it take a year for greece to unite and fight Xerxes? Wouldn't he have invaded immediately after the 300 fell?

There was major disagreement on to even fight or not. Many City/states thought it hopeless. Some already were under Persian influence. And good old basic mistrust and jealously.
The Persians couldn't immediately move forward because they were being supplied by a Persian fleet. That fleet was later beaten at Salamis. Giving even more time for the Greeks to get their shit together.

 

[Taosman]

the Battle of Thermopylae of 480 BC, an alliance of Greek city-states fought the invading Persian Empire army at the pass of Thermopylae in central Greece. Vastly outnumbered, the Greeks held back the Persians for three days in one of history's most famous last stands.
The fierce resistance of the Spartan-led army offered Athens the invaluable time to prepare for a decisive naval battle that would come to determine the outcome of the war.[1] The subsequent Greek victory at the Battle of Salamis left much of the Persian Empire's navy destroyed and Xerxes I was forced to retreat back to Asia, leaving his army in Greece under Mardonius, who was to meet the Greeks in battle one last time. The Spartans assembled at full strength and led a pan-Greek army that defeated the Persians decisively at the Battle of Plataea, ending the Greco-Persian War and with it Persian Empire expansion into Europe.[2]

Xerxes I was curious as to why there was such a small Greek force guarding Thermopylae and interrogated some Arcadian prisoners. The answer was that all the other men were participating in the Olympic Games, forbidding them to participate in war. When Xerxes I asked what the prize for the winner was, "An olive-wreath" came the answer. Upon hearing this, Tritantaechmes, a Persian Empire general, spontaneously responded by saying to Mardonius: "Good heavens! Mardonius, what kind of men are these against whom you have brought us to fight? Men who do not compete for money, but for honor".[43]

 

[Taosman]

Of interest in this whole thing is the fact that Greece was a relatively poor country. Without a lot of intrinsic value. After the Battle of Plataea, the Greeks captured the Persian treasure fund. And wondered just what the Persians were thinking they would get from so poor a country.

 

[martinss01]

according to the movie xerxes is the king of persia... probably.. thinks he is god and wants to control greece. can't tell from the movie why exactly, probably has something to do with the women often being topless and easily manipulated into sexual situations or acts. the spartans want to fight them because... well... they like to fight n stuff.. they don't retreat, though they could have just sat in sparta and not retreated from there... but then they have that whole death wish thing going on and its more fun dieing beside a mountain i guess. nice ocean view perhaps?

As far as the creatures go, I was willing to allow myself the hunchback and possibly the giant, with exaggerations, but the guy with crab arms lost me.

i think that was just to show the cruelty of xerxes. im with you on the creatures though. not needed and more than anything took away from the story. if anything they served as blatant evidence that miller is a piss poor story teller. if someone has to be horribly disfigured for you to be able to adequately identify them as "a bad guy" you've probably already failed.

yeah it wasn't historically accurate, sure its all over done. i can accept those things to a large degree. but the thing that killed this movie for me is that the characters in your average 1st person shooter are more engaging than those in this movie. i cared more when people died in quake 4 than when they did in 300. and thats what absolutely ruins this movie. you feel no empathy what-so-ever for any of the characters, you don't really understand who they are or why they are that way, you don't understand their motivations, you don't identify with them, and ultimately you could give a shit less about what happens to them.

However, the background info with how they trained the boys to be soldiers was pretty cool. They kind of ruined the whole "bad ass" image of King Leonidas when he turned out to be a smartass with a sensitive side. I'm not saying that they weren't some BAMF's, but I don't see those Spartan soliders being that loose and joking around, when in reality they were probably twisted pychos deranged from years of abuse and violence.

not picking on you here, just making a point. but, are you really sure you understood what you saw as far as the "background info"? the boy he beat up. do you know who that was or why? are you certain it was another spartan? as far as him being whipped... do you know why that was occurring? there were many different reasons why a spartan boy might be whipped. some of which were situations that more closely resembled a high school sporting event then punishment.

spartan society was displayed in the light of being nothing more than that of a negligent alcoholic father who beats the dog piss out of his kid on a nightly basis. while im anything but a scholar on the matter. spartan society, and more specific the training of their soldiers, was far more involved and intelligent than random beatings and abandonment.

furthermore, the notion of "freedom" was downright vomit worthy. ask the heliots how that whole "freedom" thing worked. you might get some interesting answers...

a spartan woman allowing herself to be raped for a vote? sure did shoot down the whole notion that persians couldn't handle spartan women didn't it? shit, all they would have had to do was hold a flippin vote on more shoe sales at the mall and they'd all be spreadin their legs.


overall... 3 out of 10. not worth renting unless you have seen everything else. decent combat, but nothing spectacular. if your a 9 yr old who hasn't found dad's porn stash... this is right up your alley.

 

[The Man]

according to the movie xerxes is the king of persia... probably.. thinks he is god and wants to control greece. can't tell from the movie why exactly, probably has something to do with the women often being topless and easily manipulated into sexual situations or acts. the spartans want to fight them because... well... they like to fight n stuff.. they don't retreat, though they could have just sat in sparta and not retreated from there... but then they have that whole death wish thing going on and its more fun dieing beside a mountain i guess. nice ocean view perhaps?



i think that was just to show the cruelty of xerxes. im with you on the creatures though. not needed and more than anything took away from the story. if anything they served as blatant evidence that miller is a piss poor story teller. if someone has to be horribly disfigured for you to be able to adequately identify them as "a bad guy" you've probably already failed.

yeah it wasn't historically accurate, sure its all over done. i can accept those things to a large degree. but the thing that killed this movie for me is that the characters in your average 1st person shooter are more engaging than those in this movie. i cared more when people died in quake 4 than when they did in 300. and thats what absolutely ruins this movie. you feel no empathy what-so-ever for any of the characters, you don't really understand who they are or why they are that way, you don't understand their motivations, you don't identify with them, and ultimately you could give a shit less about what happens to them.



not picking on you here, just making a point. but, are you really sure you understood what you saw as far as the "background info"? the boy he beat up. do you know who that was or why? are you certain it was another spartan? as far as him being whipped... do you know why that was occurring? there were many different reasons why a spartan boy might be whipped. some of which were situations that more closely resembled a high school sporting event then punishment.

spartan society was displayed in the light of being nothing more than that of a negligent alcoholic father who beats the dog piss out of his kid on a nightly basis. while im anything but a scholar on the matter. spartan society, and more specific the training of their soldiers, was far more involved and intelligent than random beatings and abandonment.

furthermore, the notion of "freedom" was downright vomit worthy. ask the heliots how that whole "freedom" thing worked. you might get some interesting answers...

a spartan woman allowing herself to be raped for a vote? sure did shoot down the whole notion that persians couldn't handle spartan women didn't it? shit, all they would have had to do was hold a flippin vote on more shoe sales at the mall and they'd all be spreadin their legs.


overall... 3 out of 10. not worth renting unless you have seen everything else. decent combat, but nothing spectacular. if your a 9 yr old who hasn't found dad's porn stash... this is right up your alley.

wow dude you sound like one of those guys that annoys everyone by talking about shit no one cares about and bringing down everyone in the room. It's a movie for Christ's sake.

 

[jwinslow]

wow dude you sound like one of those guys that annoys everyone by talking about shit no one cares about and bringing down everyone in the room.

You're right, it played well to the mindless violence crowd. A movie like 300 could have been far better.

Gladiator's bloodshed did not stand in the way of producing a complete motion picture.

 

[sandgk]

I am completely perplexed by the critique some deliver on this movie. Maybe they expected more from the project than it was ever designed to deliver. Perhaps my positive reaction is because I came into the theater expecting nothing less than what I saw - a faithful rendition of a violent, over the top, stylized Graphic Novel.

I did not expect character development, but did expect to see action.
I did not expect historical relevance or accuracy, but did expect to see jaw-dropping visuals and freak creatures (comic book, remember).

In sum, I am quite certain that the film delivered exactly that which it set out to accomplish - very well in my view. Plus, in IMAX it was totally stunning.

This by the way shouldn't put me in the mindless volence pigeon hole. I am someone who can take the Lion in Winter or Henry V easily in one sitting; should I have a need for historical relevance, character development and crisp witty dialogue.

 

[jwinslow]

It's not the freak creatures or historical inaccuracies that irked me the most.

They did not gloss over Spartan culture, as it was vital to the storyline. However, the lines and backstory used to depict their society seemed amateurish & far too repackaged (Gladiator).

That was where I was expecting more. I don't expect them to match Gladiator's actors, plot, character development, soundtrack, etc... but a well-done portrayal of the glory and honor of spartan culture seemed within reason.

I felt the Queen did an excellent job representing this aspect of Sparta. If only the others would have been up to the task.

 

[Dryden]

Good thing I read this spoilers thread ... here this whole time I thought "300" was a sequel to "Kingpin." :tongue2:

 

[Taosman]

"according to the movie xerxes is the king of persia... probably.. thinks he is god and wants to control greece. can't tell from the movie why exactly, "

Xerxes father(Darius) was defeated by the Greeks and embarrassed. Revenge had much to do with taking Greece.

"the spartans want to fight them because... well... they like to fight n stuff.. they don't retreat, though they could have just sat in sparta and not retreated from there..."

The Spartans really DON'T want to fight. They would much rather just INTIMIDATE others to get their way. If you actually fight there's always the chance you could lose. That was their thinking. They were actually very conservative in this regard. And smart.
When Xerxes father invaded Greece, it was the Athenians who met and defeated him. The Spartans were slow and late to the battle. This was an embarrassment for them. It probably played into their thinking at Thermopylae. They had something to prove.
And the Spartans were very religious. Their beliefs governed their military actions. It was the Oracle of Delphi (delivering a message from the Gods)
that told them they must fight.

 

[Taosman]

Xerxes speaks............

After Egypt was subdued, Xerxes, being about to take in hand the expedition against Athens, called together an assembly of the noblest Persians to learn their opinions, and to lay before them his own designs. So, when the men were met, the king spake thus to them:-
"Persians, I shall not be the first to bring in among you a new custom- I shall but follow one which has come down to us from our forefathers. Never yet, as our old men assure me, has our race reposed itself, since the time when Cyrus overcame Astyages, and so we Persians wrested the sceptre from the Medes. Now in all this God guides us; and we, obeying his guidance, prosper greatly. What need have I to tell you of the deeds of Cyrus and Cambyses, and my own father Darius, how many nations they conquered, and added to our dominions? Ye know right well what great things they achieved. But for myself, I will say that, from the day on which I mounted the throne, I have not ceased to consider by what means I may rival those who have preceded me in this post of honour, and increase the power of Persia as much as any of them. And truly I have pondered upon this, until at last I have found out a way whereby we may at once win glory, and likewise get possession of a land which is as large and as rich as our own nay, which is even more varied in the fruits it bears- while at the same time we obtain satisfaction and revenge. For this cause I have now called you together, that I may make known to you what I design to do.