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Comparison of what kind of games coaches lose

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Buckeyeskickbuttocks

Buckeyeskickbuttocks

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The Honeymoon Ends

After Jim Tressel won the National Championship in 2002, virtually every fan you'd talk to was ready to let Tressel coach at Ohio State for so long as he'd be able. But, after Ohio State lost to #3 USC this past Saturday 18-15, a growing number of fans have taken to wondering if maybe it's time to let Coach go on his merry way. Frustrations about a history of a less than exciting offense paired with yet another "big game" loss have boiled over and some Buckeye fans believe Ohio State could do better.

Careful What You Wish For

What follows will consider only those coaches who have won a National Title since 2002. There are certainly other coaches who might be considered, despite not having a crystal football on their mantles. Likewise, as you'll see, some of the coaches discussed would never be seriously considered for the head job at Ohio State. None-the-less, we're comparing a Coach in Jim Tressel with his peers who have also attained the highest level of success and that seems fair. That is to say, if Buckeye fans think that Tressel is not "getting it done" we should consider those who have a history of getting it done, no?

The data below will concern only losses and will draw conclusions based on that "loss-side" data. That said, it is recognized that there is a "win-side" analysis which might offset, or even completely demolish, whatever insights we might gain by considering the loss-side data. In any case, let's have a look at how Coach Tressel has compared to other Title winning coaches since 2002.

Jim Tressel

Date........Rk..Team........Rec...Score...Rk...Tea m.......Score
09-12-2009..#3..USC.........(2-0)..18......#8..Ohio State..15
01-05-2009..#3..Texas......(12-1)..24.....#10..Ohio State..21
10-25-2008..#3..Penn State.(11-2)..13......#9..Ohio state...6
09-13-2008..#1..USC........(12-1)..35......#5..Ohio State...3
01-07-2008..#2..LSU........(12-2)..38......#1..Ohio State..24
11-10-2007..NR..Illinois....(9-4)..28......#1..Ohio State..21
01-08-2001..#2..Florida....(12-1)..41......#1..Ohio State..14
10-08-2005.#16..Penn State.(12-1)..17......#6..Ohio State..10
09-10-2005..#2..Texas......(13-0)..25......#4..Ohio State..22
11-13-2004..NR..Purdue......(7-5)..24......NR..Ohio State..17
10-16-2004..NR..Iowa.......(10-2)..33.....#25..Ohio State...7
10-09-2004.#15..Wisconsin...(9-3)..24.....#18..Ohio State..13
10-02-2004..NR..Northwestern(6-6)..33......#7..Ohio state..27
11-22-2003..#5..Michigan...(10-3)..35......#4..Ohio State..21
10-11-2003.#23..Wisconsin...(7-6)..17......#3..Ohio State..10

Total Losses: 15
Losses to Top 5 team: 8
Losses to Top 25 team: 11
Losses to Unranked Team: 4
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked: 3
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in top 10: 2
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 5: 1
Losses to team with losing record: 0

Observations

53% of Tressel's losses since 2002 season began have come against teams rated in the top 5 of the AP poll at the time of the contest. Likewise, 73% of his losses have come against Top 25 competition, and thus only 27% against unranked teams.

There are some "ugly" losses up there, to be sure. 2003 Wisconsin (7-6) and 2004 Purdue (7-5) and 2004 Northwestern (6-6) stick out pretty significantly. In fairness, however, the 2004 losses were sustained by Ohio State's worst team (record wise) in the data set. The 2003 Wisconsin loss didn't appear as bad as Wisconsin's final record would indicate at the time of the loss itself, but in retrospect, it is fair to call it a good Ohio State team losing to a bad team.

And then there are the "blow outs" For purposes of this discussion, a blow out will be any game in which the Buckeyes lost by 2 TDs or more. I'm not sure that's a true "blow out" but what the heck. Those games are: USC 2008, LSU 2007 BCS Championship Game, 2006 Florida BCS Championship Game, 2004 Iowa, and 2003 Michigan. If we make the cut off 15, the list shrinks by 2 losing the LSU and Michigan games. Frankly, I'm not convinced a 15 point loss is a blow out either. In any case, the ones the remains, 2008 USC, 2006 Florida and 2004 Iowa seem to qualify as blow outs no matter what line we might draw.

None-the-less, there is not one team on that list which had a losing record. We can conclude, then, that Tressel doesn't lose games to teams which are dreadful. Indeed, Ohio State hasn't lost a game to even a middling team since Purdue 2004. I might consider Illinois as middling, but they did gain a BCS berth that season (2007), even if Buckeye fans question how much they might have "deserved" it. In fact, since that 2004 Purdue loss, Ohio State's only loss to a team NOT in the top 10 indeed, top 3, was against a #16 at the time PSU team that ended up being top 5, and the aforementioned Illinois game.

The last 5 losses have come against teams with an average rating of 2.4. The last 9 losses have come against opponents with an average rating of 6.4 (Illinois was given 26 points for the purposes of the calculation). Sure, it would have been nice to even win half of those, but there might not be another team in the nation which can make the same claim - losing only to the very, very best if or when they lose at all.
 
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Pete Carroll

There's no question Pete Carroll is among, if not THE, top coach in college football right now and I figure there are few out there who would cry in disgust if Ohio State fired Coach Tressel and replaced him with CPC. Certainly most folks calling for Tressel's head now would welcome it, no? There's hardly any reason to think Carroll would ever leave LA, though he did coach at Ohio State in 1979 under Earl Bruce, helping the Buckeyes go 11-1 (losing to USC in a manner not unlike this past Saturday)

But, despite the media romance, what does Coach Pete actually do season to season? We know about the top ratings and the dynasty and the title games. I didn't evaluate it, but I think we'd be hard pressed to find a coach with a better record in "big games." There's little doubt that they come to play when the big time ratings are on the line. But, to who does CPC lose?

Date........Rk..Team........Rec...Score...Rk...Tea m.......Score
09-19-2009..NR..Washington..(2-1)...16.....#3..USC.........13
09-25-2008..NR..Oregon St...(9-4)...27.....#1..USC.........21
10-27-2007..#5..Oregon......(9-4)...24....#12..USC.........17
10-06-2007..NR..Stanford....(4-8)...24.....#2..USC.........23
12-02-2006..NR..UCLA........(7-6)...13.....#2..USC..........9
10-28-2006..NR..Oregon St..(10-4)...33.....#3..USC.........31
01-04-2006..#2..Texas......(13-0)...41.....#1..USC.........38
09-27-2003..NR..California.(8-6)....34.....#3..USC.........31
10-05-2002..#17.Wash. St...(10-3)...30....#16..USC.........27
09-21-2002..#25.Kansas St..(11-2)...27....#11..USC.........20

Total Losses: 10
Losses to Top 5 team: 2
Losses to Top 25 team: 4
Losses to Unranked Team: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 10: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 5: 6
Losses to team with losing record: 1
Losses to 41 point underdog: 1

Observations

Carroll, in the same time frame, has 6 fewer losses than Tressel and that would tip the scales in his favor. But, wait a minute. I'm not sure how long Ohio State fans would put up with a loss to a 41 point underdog like Stanford. Tressel has never lost to a team far inferior to his own, and somehow Carroll has managed that feat.

But, it gets worse. While 73% of Tressel's losses have come to top 5 teams, only 22% of Carroll's have. Again, this data does not consider wins, only losses, and that fact is explicitly recognized. Still, more than half, 55%, of CPC's losses have come to unranked opponents! Do you remember how Michigan State 1998 felt? How Illinois 2007 felt? How would you like to feel that same feeling every year? As the data shows, 5 times USC has lost while being in the top 5 to unranked opponents.

True enough Carroll has an outstanding record in the big games, but at the end of the day, CPC has exactly the same number of crystal football's as Jim Tressel and Tressel isn't loosing to teams with an average record of 9-4 like CPC. Tressel's average opponent to which he might loose averages 10.1-2.6. If we consider just the last 5 losses, USC's losing to teams that average a 7.8 - 5.2, Ohio State: 11.2-2

Consider that as you call for Coach Carroll heading the ship here in Columbus. Ask yourself seriously, how long are you going to put up with dropping games to inferior competition when all you have to show for it - that you don't already have (ie a great Defense and a single Crystal Football) - is a flashy offense?

John Cooper headed some pretty good offensive outputs. 72-0 over Pitt and 70-7 over Rice in 1996 come to mind quite quickly. John Cooper also had a knack for dropping a game he shouldn't. 28-0 to Michigan in 1993, 13-9 to Michigan in 1996, and 28-24 to Michigan State in 1998 roll off the fingers pretty quickly. I guess what I'm suggesting here is, Ohio State has had flashy offenses. Ohio State even had a pretty good one in 2006. And what do all those great offenses have in common? Not one National Title. Not. One. We've already seen what losing to inferior competition is like, and we ran that guy out of town. What makes you think Carroll would be any different? One Crystal Football?

I doubt it.

I realize you might be sitting there reading this and saying, "BKB just compared Pete Carroll to John friggin Cooper?" Seriously? Well, Yes. I did. It's what the data revealed. True enough Coop couldn't beat Michigan, but aside from one title, he's got 2 top 2 finishes (1996, 1998) while Carroll has 3 - one of which was the AP poll responding to the BCS, and that looks about the same to me. Losing to a 41 point dog strikes me as worse, actually, than losing to Michigan State. Not sure tossing a game to rival - and 7-6 UCLA, knocking you out of Championship contention is remarkably dissimilar than losing 13-9 to an 8-4 Michigan. Think about it.
 
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Urban Meyer

Let's look at another guy who there's little question is at the top of the current "who's the best coach" list. He's won two titles at Florida in two chances. He's running an exciting offense, and even the defense is stout. Making matters even better for Buckeye fans, Meyer has Ohio ties and might actually give some serious consideration to the job, though I'm dubious that he'd take it. In any case, there's little question those calling for Tressel's head, if they're not thinking about Pete Carrol, are thinking about Urban Meyer.

Date........Rk..Team........Rec...Score...Rk...Tea m.......Score
09-27-2008..NR..Ole Miss...(9-4)....31....#4...Florida.....30
01-01-2008..NR..Michigan...(9-4)....41....#12..Florida.....35
10-27-2007.#18..Georgia...(11-2)....42....#11..Florida.....30
10-06-2007..#1..LSU.......(12-2)....28.....#9..Florida.....24
09-29-2007..NR..Auburn.....(9-4)....20.....#4..Florida.....17
10-14-2006.#11..Auburn....(11-2)....27.....#2..Florida.....17
11-12-2005..NR..South Car..(7-5)....30....#12..Florida.....22
10-15-2005.#10..LSU.......(11-2)....21....#11..Florida.....17
10-01-2005.#15..Alabama...(10-2)....31.....#5..Florida......3
10-25-2003..NR..New Mexico.(8-5)....47....#24..Utah........35
09-06-2003..NR..Texas A&M..(4-8)....26.....NR..Utah........26
11-30-2002..NR..Toledo.....(9-5)....42.....NR..BGSU........24
11-16-2002..NR..South Fl...(9-2)....29.....NR..BGSU.........7
11-09-2002..NR..N. Ill.....(8-4)....26....#20..BGSU........17

Total Losses: 14 (Florida only: 7)
Losses to Top 5 team: 1 (Florida only: 1)
Losses to Top 25 team: 5 (Florida only: 5)
Losses to Unranked Team: 9 (Florida only: 4)
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked: 6 (Florida only: 4)
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 10: 2 (Florida only: 2)
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 5: 2 (Florida only: 2)
Losses to team with losing record: 1 (Florida only: 0)

Observations:
Meyer's got one less loss since 2002 than does Tressel. Meyer is also 12 years younger than Tressel, suggesting that he'd be available to coach a good long while. There's not much argument that he's been successful at the highest level in as much as he's the only guy with two Crystal footballs on his mantle. Ohio State, should it ever succeed in gaining Meyer's coaching services could surely do much, much, MUCH worse.

But, here we see again, the propensity to loose game he shouldn't. 64% of all Meyer losses come to unranked opponents, a trend only slightly more improved at Florida, 57%. Only 1 of the teams he's lost to was rated in the top 5. One. As with Carrol, it is again noted that big game successes are not evaluated here, but it looks like Florida fans have the likelihood to have the rug swept out from under them by some "unknown" and I'm not sure that's a whole lot easier to deal with than losing to the #3 team in the country 18-15.

I see an "embarrassing loss" up there as well, 31-3 #15 Alabama over #5 Florida, and a loss to a 4-8 team while at Utah. But again, that loss to Bama came years ago and has, no doubt, been erased from memory considering the 2 crystal footballs, and Florida fans have no need to think about the Utah TAMU game. One has to wonder also how Meyer benefited from the SEC Championship game in 2006, which he entered at #4 behind USC and Michigan. Consider also that Michigan had already lost to #1 Ohio State (USC dropped the game mentioned above to UCLA) Without the SEC Championship, does Florida qualify? Hard to say.

In any case, Buckeye fans, is losing "big games" really so bad? Would it be better if Ohio State beat USC and then lost to Illinois, ending your hopes of a Title anyway? Remember 1995? Ohio State beat two highly rated teams in Notre Dame and Penn State - back to back - and still tanked against a 9-4 Michigan. How'd that feel? Want that back?

Let's not also forget, Meyer wouldn't bring with him the "SEC Hype" and thus one loss at Ohio State doesn't keep you in the championship hunt the same way it might be "OK" in the SEC.

Now, all that said, Meyer is probably the most "sound" choice as a guy to replace Tressel. He's young, he's good, he's proven he can be (is) successful, and he even knows what football in Ohio is like having been at Bowling Green State University. I'm just not sure he's materially different than Jim Tressel. While he certainly would bring some good, there's some bad up there too. I must note, again, however, big game successes might significantly offset those blemishes - particularly in Meyer's case.
 
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The Rest:

The remaining coaches aren't, in my estimation, seriously in the "replace Tressel" conversation. As a consequence, I'll simply provide the data and let you draw your own conclusions about how Tress compares with them

Bob Stoops

Not sure Buckeye fans would consider "Big Game" Bobby a solid replacement. None-the-less, he's near the top of all active coaches and we'll consider him in the same manner

Date........Rk..Team........Rec...Score...Rk...Tea m.......Score
09-05-2009.#20..BYU.........(2-0)...14.....#3..Oklahoma....13
01-08-2009..#2..Florida....(13-1)...24.....#1..Oklahoma....14
10-11-2009..#5..Texas......(12-1)...45.....#1..Oklahoma....35
01-02-2008..#9..W. Virginia(11-2)...48.....#4..Oklahoma....28
11-17-2007..NR..Texas Tech..(9-4)...34.....#4..Oklahoma....27
09-29-2007..NR..Colorado....(6-7)...27.....#3..Oklahoma....24
01-01-2007..#9..Boise St...(13-0)...43.....#7..Oklahoma....42
10-07-2006..#7..Texas......(10-3)...28....#14..Oklahoma....10
09-16-2006.#18..Oregon......(7-6)...34....#15..Oklahoma....33
11-19-2005.#21..Texas Tech..(9-3)...23.....NR..Oklahoma....21
10-08-2005..#2..Texas......(13-0)...45.....NR..Oklahoma....12
09-17-2005..NR..UCLA.......(10-2)...41....#21..Oklahoma....24
09-03-2005..NR..TCU........(11-2)...17.....#7..Oklahoma....10
01-04-2005..#1..USC........(13-0)...55.....#2..Oklahoma....19
01-04-2004..#2..LSU........(13-1)...21.....#3..Oklahoma....14
12-06-2003.#13..Kansas St..(11-4)...35.....#1..Oklahoma.....7
11-30-2002..NR..Ola. St.....(8-5)...38.....#3..Oklahoma....28
11-09-2002..NR..Texas A&M...(6-6)...30.....#1..Oklahoma....26

Total Losses: 18
Losses to Top 5 team: 5
Losses to Top 25 team: 12
Losses to Unranked Team: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 10: 5
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 5: 5
Losses to team with losing record: 1

Les Miles

Like Stoops, Miles would probably not be seriously considered by too many Ohio State fans, nor those fans calling for Tressel's head. None-the-less, he's got a title in this time frame, so we'll look at Les Miles too.

Date........Rk..Team........Rec...Score...Rk...Tea m.......Score
11-28-2008..NR..Arkansas....(5-7)..31.....NR...LSU.........30
11-22-2008..NR..Ole Miss....(9-4)..31....#18...LSU.........13
11-08-2008..#1..Alabama....(12-2)..27....#16...LSU.........21
10-25-2008..#7..Georgia....(10-3)..52....#13...LSU.........38
10-11-2008.#11..Florida....(13-1)..51.....#4...LSU.........21
11-23-2007..NR..Arkansas....(8-5)..50.....#1...LSU.........48
10-13-2007.#17..Kentucky....(8-5)..43.....#1...LSU.........37
10-07-2006..#9..Florida....(12-1)..23.....#9...LSU.........10
09-16-2006..#3..Aubrun.....(11-2)...7.....#6...LSU..........3
12-03-2005.#13..Georgia....(10-3)..34.....#3...LSU.........14
09-26-2005.#10..Tenneessee..(5-6)..30.....#4...LSU.........27
12-29-2004.#24..Ohio State..(8-4)..33.....NR...Oklahoma St..7
11-27-2004..NR..Texas Tech..(8-4)..31....#23...Oklahoma St.15
11-06-2004..#6..Texas......(11-1)..56....#19...Oklahoma St.35
10-30-2004..#2..Oklahoma...(12-1)..38....#20...Oklahoma St.35
10-16-2004.#23..Texas A&M..(7-5)...36....#16...Oklahoma St.20
01-02-2004.#17..Ole Miss...(10-3)..31....#22...Oklahoma St.28
11-08-2003.#11..Texas......(10-3)..55....#21...Oklahoma St.16
11-01-2003..#1..Oklahoma...(12-2)..52....#14...Oklahoma St..9
08-30-2003..NR..Nebraska...(10-3)..17....#24...Oklahoma St..7
11-09-2002..NR..Texas Tech..(9-5)..49.....NR...Oklahoma St.24
10-12-2002.#19..Kansas St..(11-2)..44.....NR...Oklahoma St..9
10-05-2002..#2..Texas......(11-2)..17.....NR...Oklahoma St.15

Total Losses: 23
Losses to Top 5 team: 5
Losses to Top 25 team: 17
Losses to Unranked Team: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked: 4
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 10: 1
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 5: 1
Losses to team with losing record: 2

Mack Brown

He's got the 2005 Championship, and thus we can consider Coach Brown. He would certainly fit the bill of wanting a "high powered" offense if his time in Texas is any indication. Likewise, fans would be pretty sure he'd know what to do with Terrelle Pryor's skill set.

Date........Rk..Team........Rec...Score...Rk...Tea m.......Score
11-01-2008..#7..Texas Tech.(11-2)..39.....#1...Texas.......33
11-23-2007..NR..Texas A&M..(7-6)...38....#13...Texas.......30
10-06-2007.#10..Oklahoma..(11-3)...28....#19...Texas.......21
09-29-2007..NR..Kansas St..(5-7)...41.....#7...Texas.......21
11-24-2006..NR..Texas A&M..(9-4)...12....#11...Texas........7
11-11.2006..NR..Kansas St..(7-6)...45.....#4...Texas.......42
09-09-2006..#1..Ohio State(12-1)...24.....#2...Texas........7
10-09-2004..#2..Oklahoma..(12-1)...12.....#5...Texas........0
12-30-2003.#15..Wash. St..(10-3)...28.....#6...Texas.......20
10-11-2003..#1..Oklahoma..(12-2)...65....#11...Texas.......13
09-13-2003..NR..Arkansas...(9-4)...38.....#6...Texas.......28
11-16-2002..NR..Texas Tech.(9-5)...42.....#4...Texas.......38
10-12-2002..#2..Oklahoma..(12-2)...35.....#3...Texas.......24

Total Losses: 13
Losses to Top 5 team: 4
Losses to Top 25 team: 7
Losses to Unranked Team: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 10: 4
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 5: 2
Losses to team with losing record: 1

Nick Saban

Another of the "no way" sort of candidates, though he, like Carrol coached at Ohio State as an assistant long ago. But, he has a title and we have to consider him since we're talking Titles and big games and all. Nick beat Number 1 Ohio State in 1998, so we know he can do it.

Date........Rk..Team........Rec...Score...Rk...Tea m.......Score
01-02-2009..#6..Utah.......(12-0)..31.....#4...Alabama.....17
12-06-2008..#4..Florida....(13-1)..31.....#1...Alabama.....20
11-24-2007..NR..Arkansas....(9-4)..17.....NR...Alabama.....10
11-17-2007..NR..La. Monroe..(6-6)..14.....NR...Alabama.....21
11-10-2007..NR..Miss. St....(8-5)..17....#22...Alabama.....12
11-03-2007..#3..LSU........(12-2)..41....#17...Alabama.....34
09-29-2007..NR..Florida St..(7-6)..21....#22...Alabama.....14
09-22-2007.#22..Georgia....(11-2)..26....#16...Alabama.....23
.............Coached in the NFL..............................
01-01-2005.#11..Iowa.......(10-2)..30....#12...LSU.........25
10-02-2004..#3..Georgia....(10-2)..45....#13...LSU.........16
09-18-2004.#14..Auburn.....(13-0)..10.....#5...LSU..........9
10-11-2003..NR..Florida.....(8-5)..19.....#6...LSU..........7
01-01-2003..#9..Texas......(11-2)..35.....NR...LSU.........20
11-16-2002.#10..Alabama....(10-3)..31....#14...LSU..........0
10-26-2002..NR..Aurburn.....(9-4)..31....#10...LSU..........7
09-01-2002.#16..Va. Tech...(10-4)..26....#14...LSU..........8

Total Losses: 16
Losses to Top 5 team: 3
Losses to Top 25 team: 10
Losses to Unranked Team: 6
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked: 4
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 10: 2
Losses to Unranked Team when Ranked in Top 5: 0
Losses to team with losing record: 0

As a general matter

As a general matter, it's pretty clear that Tressel compares favorably with each of these Coaches. Some have more losses, some have uglier losses, some can't beat their rivals with consistency, and some not only tank the big games but also manage to lose to teams with losing records from time to time.

Conclusion

Careful what you wish for, guys. Yes, losing the last several big games has hurt quite a bit for us fans. But, I don't see any candidate out there who's materially better. We can go back to the Cooper years if you like - it'll certainly be flashier. But, it's not likely to lead us to the promised land any more frequently, and indeed, the falls might even be harder. You kinda know you might lose to USC, but you don't expect to lose to Texas A&M or Ole Miss or the like. True enough, even Tressel has dropped a game to Illinois, but he loses games he should win more infrequently than any coach on these lists.

Careful what you wish for. Do you want offensive stats, or do you want an honest chance at the Title? You're going to say "both" of course, and I say - Bring back John Cooper, then.
 
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Great perspective...I've always stood by Tressel no matter what even as I post this. Losses happen, it's part of the game and we can't expect to go undefeated every year. But putting those numbers and comparing those top coaches in CFB to Tressel, just goes to show that we have something special here in Columbus, and those who wish to give him the ole boot, need to come back to reality.
 
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I think what is being lost in all of this is OVERALL PERFORMANCE. Yeah, PC teams beat the shit out of OSU and Michigan and Oklahoma and the SEC. But they trip up on the Stanfords and Oregon States of the world. Why does that get forgiven and not a loss to a Top Team?

Maybe the bar is set higher for OSU?

Excellent points, BKB. I take it back, you are not a looser :)
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1543805; said:
Jwins points out I can't spell. Sorry. :biggrin:
Edit: JCOSU reminds me that Loose = not tight where Lose = Didn't win.

I suck at life. :wink2:
Click to expand...

Glad to see you got Petey's name right this time. :shake:
 
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Some More Interesting Observations From Info

In the information that was provided by BuckeyesKickButtocks we also discover this:

In the Tressel losses his teams gave up an average 27 pts and scored an average of approximately 16 pts a game for an average 11 pt win margin for the opposing teams. Also in all of Coach T's losses his Defense gave up 30 pts or more on six occasions.

In the PC losses his teams gave up an average of 28 pts and scored an average of 24 pts a game for an average 4 pt win margin for the opposing teams. Also in all of PC losses his Defense gave up 30 pts or more on four occassions which actually averages out to over 40% of his games.

In the Urban Meyer losses his teams gave up an average of 31.5 pts and scored an average of 22 pts a game for an average 9.5 pt win margin for the oppossing teams. Urban Meyers Defense gave up 30 pts or more on seven different occasions.

In the Bob Stoops losses his teams gave up an average of 33 pts and scored an average of 21.5 pts a game for a average 11.5 pt win margin for the opposing teams. Bob Stoops Defenses gave up 30 pts or more on eleven different occasions and 40 pts or more on six different occasions.

In the Mack Browns losses his teams gave up an average of 34 pts and scored an average of 22 pts a game for a 12 pt win margin for the opposing teams. Mack Brown's Defenses gave up 30 pts or more on eight different occasions.

In Nick Saban's losses his teams gave up an average of 26 pts and scored an average of 15 pts a game for an 11 pt win margin for the opposing teams. Saban's Defenses have given up 30 pts or more on eight different occasions. Saban's and Tressels records in regard to the above data is almost exactly the same, with Tressel scoring 1 pt more and Saban giving up 1 pt less.

In Les Miles losses his teams gave up an average of 36 pts and scored an average of 21 pts a game for a 15 pt win margin for the opposing teams. Miles Defenses have given up 30 pts or more a staggering 18 times and have given up 50 pts or more a staggering 6 times.

This shows that indeed, in losses, Tress' Offense, on averages scores about 6 pts less than the other Coaches mentioned. However his Defense gives up about 6 pts less than the other Coaches, making it a wash.

What so many "expert" fans are quibbling over is 6 pts scored on Offense. Two freakin FG's. Let me ask: Would you be willing to score 6 more pts every game you lose IF that also meant giving up 6 more pts every game? It really doesn't matter does it? EVERY TEAM LOSES. Coach Tressel has shown that in his losses he is just as competitive as the other elite coaches in CFB.

PC perhaps has the most impressive stats going, however, his team loses on an yearly basis to unranked or much lesser ranked teams. Atleast when Tress loses, the majority of the time it is to teams that are ranked higher than them or in the top ten.

Out of all the top coaches mentioned, Jim Tressel and Nick Saban are almost identical in the points scored and points given up in games that they have lost. Instead of people bitching, perhaps Tress needs a raise to match what Saban is making, since they are almost identical. The only differnce is that Saban has one more loss during this time frame and I believe Tress has won more Conference championships, as well as victories against his archrival.

GO BUCKS!!

:osu:
 
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In that same regard, I note also that the most points scored against any loss are as follows:

Tressel: 41 #2 Florida
Carroll: 41 #2 Texas
Meyer: 47 NR New Mexico
Meyer (at Florida): 42 #18 Georgia
Stoops: 55 #1 USC
Miles: 56 #6 Texas
Miles (at LSU): 52 #7 Georgia (it's astonishing how many 50 pointers are in Miles' resume)
Brown: 65 #1 Oklahoma
Saban: 45 #3 Georgia
Saban at Alabama: 41 #3 LSU

The most points given up in any Tressel loss is at the same as any Carroll loss. That said, USC certainly gave Texas a better look than our Buckeyes gave Florida.
 
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