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College Playoff

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Lockup;1039705; said:
That is ridiculous. If you had a 4 team playoff the loser shoul dhave dropped out of the top 4 so I say it would have been just as big of a deal as it was. An 8 team playoff they probably still would have gotten in but where would you have rather been seated 6, 7 or 1. The loser would have dropped to at least 6 or 7 and the winer is #1. I'd say those are still some pretty big things on the line.
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I disagree. A lot of people advocating for a playoff want to use the BCS system, or some derivation thereof, in order to determine the top 4. Last year, scUM, ranked #3 by the final BCS poll before the bowl games, would have been in a four team playoff. I'm not sure what ranking system you are using when you say that the loser of last year's OSU-scUM game should have dropped out of the top 4, but it clearly isn't the BCS system.
 
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buckeyesin07;1039876; said:
I disagree. A lot of people advocating for a playoff want to use the BCS system, or some derivation thereof, in order to determine the top 4. Last year, scUM, ranked #3 by the final BCS poll before the bowl games, would have been in a four team playoff. I'm not sure what ranking system you are using when you say that the loser of last year's OSU-scUM game should have dropped out of the top 4, but it clearly isn't the BCS system.
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Yeah well that is one of the problems with the BCS system isn't it? If they would have lost the week before to the #1 team would they only drop one spot? I think not. they were only ranked #3 because enough people tried to get them into the NCG. Now the same thing could happen (and probably would) in a 4 team setup but in an 8 team setup scUM would have dropped more than one spot. Even if they do not drop out of the top 8 the drop would hurt their seeding for the playoff.

I am sure scUM fans too would have appreciated a plyoff last year so that loseing the last game to the #1 in the country by 3 did not blow your chance at a NC.

Point was if the voting was done like it is all year scUM would not have been #3. I don't remember but what the teams behind them did but they would normally drop out of the top 4.
 
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Lockup;1039955; said:
Yeah well that is one of the problems with the BCS system isn't it? If they would have lost the week before to the #1 team would they only drop one spot? I think not. they were only ranked #3 because enough people tried to get them into the NCG. Now the same thing could happen (and probably would) in a 4 team setup but in an 8 team setup scUM would have dropped more than one spot. Even if they do not drop out of the top 8 the drop would hurt their seeding for the playoff.
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Look, my original point was that a playoff, if you don't require all participants to be conference champions, has the potential of devaluing the regular season. I don't need to look any further than last season, in which OSU beat scUM, who would have been included in a 4 team playoff (as they were ranked #3, even after the loss to OSU). So, I'm still not sure why you called my post ridiculous.

At any rate, unless you're advocating the creation of a playoff system AND blowing up the BCS as a ranking system to determine which teams get into the playoff, I don't see your point. And I'll add that of those who want a playoff, the vast majority of them would keep the BCS rankings as a way of determining who makes it in. If you would go against the majority and use an alternative ranking system to determine who gets in, I'd like to hear what you have in mind.
 
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buckeyesin07;1039655; said:
Last year, if there were 4 or more teams in the playoff, UM would have gotten in, potentially rendering the showdown between #1 OSU and #2 UM in November meaningless.
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Everyone just shut the fuck up about "meaningless" already. So what if Michigan got into the playoffs after we beat them? Would that diminish the memories of seeing our fans storm the field and watching Henne and Hart slither off with their tails between their legs? Sorry, but the joy of beating Michigan when they were #2 would remain the same no matter what.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1040004; said:
Everyone just shut the fuck up about "meaningless" already. So what if Michigan got into the playoffs after we beat them? Would that diminish the memories of seeing our fans storm the field and watching Henne and Hart slither off with their tails between their legs? Sorry, but the joy of beating Michigan when they were #2 would remain the same no matter what.
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Respectfully, yes. Hypothetically speaking, I think that if scUM had remained #2 in the final BCS poll before the bowls last year and had beaten OSU in the BCS title game, it certainly would have tarnished the memory of beating scUM in Columbus two months earlier. The November game would have been rendered meaningless, as scUM would have gotten a "do over," for all the marbles. Maybe I'm in the minority here.
 
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MililaniBuckeye;1040004; said:
Everyone just shut the fuck up about "meaningless" already. So what if Michigan got into the playoffs after we beat them? Would that diminish the memories of seeing our fans storm the field and watching Henne and Hart slither off with their tails between their legs? Sorry, but the joy of beating Michigan when they were #2 would remain the same no matter what.
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You have to be the grumpiest Hawaiian resident of all-time. But good point nonetheless. Malu, brah.
 
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buckeyesin07;1039979; said:
Look, my original point was that a playoff, if you don't require all participants to be conference champions, has the potential of devaluing the regular season. I don't need to look any further than last season, in which OSU beat scUM, who would have been included in a 4 team playoff (as they were ranked #3, even after the loss to OSU). So, I'm still not sure why you called my post ridiculous.

At any rate, unless you're advocating the creation of a playoff system AND blowing up the BCS as a ranking system to determine which teams get into the playoff, I don't see your point. And I'll add that of those who want a playoff, the vast majority of them would keep the BCS rankings as a way of determining who makes it in. If you would go against the majority and use an alternative ranking system to determine who gets in, I'd like to hear what you have in mind.
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your right I am probably not being real clear here so let me try and clear this up.

I find your statement of it devaluing "The Game" riduclous in part because you have pointed to last year as an example. Well great, but in the 100+ year history of "The Game" only once (last year) has OSU and scUM met as #1 and #2. This means it almost never happens and may never happen again for a very long time. so to say that it could devalue the game and only point to 1 year when it could have potentially done it is ridiculous.

I further find that statement ridiculous because are you telling me that if there was a playoff system you would some how have thought less of "The Game" last year? I sure wouldn't have because everything about being a bucks fan is about that 1 game. NC, Big Ten titles or anything else are of no concern to me and I would expect most OSU fans until that game is done. A 4 team or 8 team or 64 team playoff is not going to change my mind about that.

I know that on the outside chance OSU met scUM in a playoff game that maybe that might effect "The Game". Perosnally for me it still would not. For one I doubt you would even know for sure you would see scUM again even in a playoff. Second I live near Cleveland but I am a Steelers fan and have been my whole life. They play each other twice a year and I get great enjoyment out of watching the Steelers kick the Browns ass twice a year. The two times they have played in the playoffs against each other has been an added bonus that I throughly enjoyed. It has taken nothing away from the regualr season games for me and so far is not even close to getting old.

While I have no real issue with useing the BCS ranking system I say use it the way it is used all year. Meaning that scUM should have dropped more than 1 spot like they would have at any other part of the season. I have had this issue with the BCS last year and this year where it seems that they all of a sudden change the way they do ranking to get the match up they want. This could happen in the playoffs too but the teams would still have to earn it on the field in more than just one game.

Lastly I love CFB. It is by far my most favorite sport. I look forward all year to the start of the season to not only watch the only team I truly root for but to watch other teams play that I find enjoyable. In my mind there is nothing like the whole CFB season in any other sport. To not have a playoff in it like every other sport in the free world is complete BS.
So if "The Game" has to be devalued a bit (I don't think it will) so that the sport itself can crown a real champion then so be it. To not do so devalues OSU, scUM, every other CFB team and the sport itself. So I refuse to be that selfish as to complain that 1 game might suffer a bit so that the sport I love so much can crown a real champion the proper way.
 
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Lockup;1040028; said:
your right I am probably not being real clear here so let me try and clear this up.

I find your statement of it devaluing "The Game" riduclous in part because you have pointed to last year as an example. Well great, but in the 100+ year history of "The Game" only once (last year) has OSU and scUM met as #1 and #2. This means it almost never happens and may never happen again for a very long time. so to say that it could devalue the game and only point to 1 year when it could have potentially done it is ridiculous.

I further find that statement ridiculous because are you telling me that if there was a playoff system you would some how have thought less of "The Game" last year? I sure wouldn't have because everything about being a bucks fan is about that 1 game. NC, Big Ten titles or anything else are of no concern to me and I would expect most OSU fans until that game is done. A 4 team or 8 team or 64 team playoff is not going to change my mind about that.

I know that on the outside chance OSU met scUM in a playoff game that maybe that might effect "The Game". Perosnally for me it still would not. For one I doubt you would even know for sure you would see scUM again even in a playoff. Second I live near Cleveland but I am a Steelers fan and have been my whole life. They play each other twice a year and I get great enjoyment out of watching the Steelers kick the Browns ass twice a year. The two times they have played in the playoffs against each other has been an added bonus that I throughly enjoyed. It has taken nothing away from the regualr season games for me and so far is not even close to getting old.

While I have no real issue with useing the BCS ranking system I say use it the way it is used all year. Meaning that scUM should have dropped more than 1 spot like they would have at any other part of the season. I have had this issue with the BCS last year and this year where it seems that they all of a sudden change the way they do ranking to get the match up they want. This could happen in the playoffs too but the teams would still have to earn it on the field in more than just one game.

Lastly I love CFB. It is by far my most favorite sport. I look forward all year to the start of the season to not only watch the only team I truly root for but to watch other teams play that I find enjoyable. In my mind there is nothing like the whole CFB season in any other sport. To not have a playoff in it like every other sport in the free world is complete BS.
So if "The Game" has to be devalued a bit (I don't think it will) so that the sport itself can crown a real champion then so be it. To not do so devalues OSU, scUM, every other CFB team and the sport itself. So I refuse to be that selfish as to complain that 1 game might suffer a bit so that the sport I love so much can crown a real champion the proper way.
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Your entire argument is premised on the assumption that only with a playoff can we "crown a real champion the proper way." I disagree, for many of the reasons stated before in this thread (I'll leave it to you to go back through and read them). Most glaringly, I'll point out that the BCS has only failed to work, in terms of needing a playoff, in one year, namely the year in which Auburn was left out, despite going undefeated. I find this funny because your argument is predicated on this one-time occurrence, yet you chide me for basing my argument on what you perceive as a one-time occurrence. Furthermore, I contend that if there is an eight-team playoff (or even a four-team playoff), OSU and UM both making it in any given year is certainly plausible, and much more likely than once in every hundred or so years, as you seem to believe.

Finally, if you respond, I'd appreciate it if you display enough maturity this time to refrain from repeatedly calling my post "ridiculous." Thanks in advance.
 
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buckeyesin07;1040052; said:
Your entire argument is premised on the assumption that only with a playoff can we "crown a real champion the proper way." I disagree, for many of the reasons stated before in this thread (I'll leave it to you to go back through and read them).
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Yeah call me crazy. Since the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, MLS, every other college sport and every other sport I can think of crowns its champions that way I might think this is the only real way to do it. No I wil not go back and look at the other ways you say it can be done because considering thw whole system is based off of biased human polls and computers that can't see a game, proving it on the field is the only way and should involve more than two teams.
Most glaringly, I'll point out that the BCS has only failed to work, in terms of needing a playoff, in one year, namely the year in which Auburn was left out, despite going undefeated.
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Really that is the only year it didn't work right?
Here are some teams that might disagree with that.
2007
OK
Georgia
Va Tech
USC
Mizzu
Hawaii
WVU
ASU
BYU
Boise state

2006
scUM
Wisky
Louisville
Boise State

2003
USC (Yes they got the AP but never played for the crystal ball)

Taken just from 2002 to now all the teams listed had the same record as either the #1 or #2 team playing in the BCS NCG. Sure some of them you could throw out with conference strengh and such but never the less they had the record. So out of the last 6 years and if you include the year Auburn got screwed the BSC really didn't get it right 4 out of the last 6. It only gets it right if CFB has only 2 undefeated teams or two teams at the top with the same record.

I find this funny because your argument is predicated on this one-time occurrence, yet you chide me for basing my argument on what you perceive as a one-time occurrence. Furthermore, I contend that if there is an eight-team playoff (or even a four-team playoff), OSU and UM both making it in any given year is certainly plausible, and much more likely than once in every hundred or so years, as you seem to believe.
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I used last year as an example because that is the year you used to try and say it would devalue the game. I never said they both could not get in and even said they could and went on to say why I did not think it was a big deal. It can happen sure but I don't think that takes away from "The Game" because they might meet in the playoffs.

Finally, if you respond, I'd appreciate it if you display enough maturity this time to refrain from repeatedly calling my post "ridiculous." Thanks in advance.
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Please let's not try and say I am immature because I used the word ridiculous. I am sure both of us can think of far more immature things I could have said. Argueing sports is like arguing politics and if that is all it takes to hurt your feelings I would suggest taking up knitting.
 
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Lockup;1040108; said:
Really that is the only year it didn't work right?
Here are some teams that might disagree with that.
2007
OK
Georgia
Va Tech
USC
Mizzu
Hawaii
WVU
ASU
BYU
Boise state
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So let me get this straight--you are basing your argument for a playoff on the BCS got it wrong this year for leaving out the following teams:

Oklahoma (lost to 6-6 Colorado)
Georgia (2 losses, didn't win conference)
Va Tech (lost by 40 to one of the teams in the NC game)
USC (lost at home to a 40 point underdog, 2 wins against teams over .500)
Missou (lost twice to the same team, proving they're not the best team in the nation)
Hawaii (horrible SOS)
WVU (lost at home to Pitt when favored by 4 TDs)
Arizona State (ONE win against a team over .500)
BYU (lost to Tulsa)
Boise State (this is laughable--let's just say they lost to 4-9 Washington and East Carolina)


In short, out of your entire list of teams that you believe have an argument, I would say that one--Oklahoma--has somewhat of an argument. But, as they say, if they would've gotten it done on the field, they'd be in the NC game, and they'd have nothing to complain about. I guess I just have a hard time feeling sorry for a bunch of teams arguing that they're the best 2-loss team out there. In my opinion, therefore, only Auburn, who ran the table in 2003, has a legitimate beef with the BCS. I'll say it again--your position devalues the regular season, as your list clearly shows that you have no problem including teams that have lost more than once in the regular season.
 
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