College Playoff

[MililaniBuckeye]

i'd have to run the numbers, but i think a 50/50 shot at winning the whole pot (a HUGE one at that) for just one additional game, might beat a 67% shot at winning what would, presumably, be a smaller pot.

Not when you have to be in the top 2 in the nation to get that 50/50, whereas all you have to be is in the top 16 to get that 67% shot.

Everyone here needs to keep this very sobering thought in mind: If it weren't for the I-AA's playoff format, we would not have Jim Tressel as our head coach.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I posted this in the Gee thread, but it bears repeating here:

Everyone here needs to keep this very sobering thought in mind: If it weren't for the I-AA's playoff format, we would not have Jim Tressel as our head coach.

 

[BB73]

Not when you have to be in the top 2 in the nation to get that 50/50, whereas all you have to be is in the top 16 to get that 67% shot.

Everyone here needs to keep this very sobering thought in mind: If it weren't for the I-AA's playoff format, we would not have Jim Tressel as our head coach.

In 15 years under JT, Youngstown State had:

4 NC wins
2 title game defeats
4 other losses in earlier playoff rounds
5 times didn't make the playoffs

67% represents the probablity of YSU getting into the playoffs, while 40% is the frequency of a title when getting into the playoffs.

In your use of the 67%, it was the frequency of YSU winning the title game, but they only reached it in 60% of the seasons in which they were among the playoff teams.

Note - I moved some posts from the Gee thread into here

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

In 15 years under JT, Youngstown State had:

4 NC wins
2 title game defeats
4 other losses in earlier playoff rounds
5 times didn't make the playoffs

67% represents the probablity of YSU getting into the playoffs, while 40% is the frequency of a title when getting into the playoffs.

In your use of the 67%, it was the frequency of YSU winning the title game, but they only reached it in 60% of the seasons in which they were among the playoff teams.

Note - I moved some posts from the Gee thread into here

YSU was #1 or #2 going into the playoffs twice out of the eight time they qualified for the playoffs (1990 for sure and pretty sure for 1994). Thus, they would've played in only two I-AA national title games under the BCS #1 vs #2 system. They lost they first-round game in 1990, so that's one of the two title games they would've lost...they ran the table aside from a season-opening tie in 1994 so you assume they would've won the single-game title in 1994. So, instead of Jim Tressel being a I-AA coach with four national titles in six title games (along with a gaudy 23-4 playoff record and a stand-standing I-AA playoff win streak of 15 games), he would've been a I-AA coach with one national title in two games. Seeing as he was a stretch of a hire at the time even with his phenomenal playoff record, there's no way he would have even been looked at had he been only 1-1 in national title games.

 

[Zurp]

I have the solution. Split the Div-IA (or FBS) into two more divisions. One division maintains the bowl system, while the other creates its playoff system. Let all of the teams choose whice division they want to be in.

After 4-5 years, we figure out which division (and therefore, which postseason format) we like better. We all vote simply by television ratings.

I'd have no problem changing my opinion if the playoff format proves better.

 

[OSUBucksfan09]

Im sorry about that Speed guy, but I live in FL and honestly I can't wait to get the f out of here.

 

[BB73]

YSU was #1 or #2 going into the playoffs twice out of the eight time they qualified for the playoffs (1990 for sure and pretty sure for 1994). Thus, they would've played in only two I-AA national title games under the BCS #1 vs #2 system. They lost they first-round game in 1990, so that's one of the two title games they would've lost...they ran the table aside from a season-opening tie in 1994 so you assume they would've won the single-game title in 1994. So, instead of Jim Tressel being a I-AA coach with four national titles in six title games (along with a gaudy 23-4 playoff record and a stand-standing I-AA playoff win streak of 15 games), he would've been a I-AA coach with one national title in two games. Seeing as he was a stretch of a hire at the time even with his phenomenal playoff record, there's no way he would have even been looked at had he been only 1-1 in national title games.

That may indicate that YSU was better off having a 16-game playoff sytem, but it doesn't indicate to me that tOSU would be better off with one.

 

[BB73]

I hate to keep bumping this thread, but this is meaningful.

usatoday

NCAA's Brand: I'd support plus-one title plan

By Steve Wieberg, USA TODAY

A major-college football playoff remains a non-starter. Still, NCAA President Myles Brand wonders aloud whether there's a way to create more order in the sport's national championship format and - though he has no official input - says he would support a much-discussed "plus-one" plan.

The move, if it ever comes, would require an NCAA rules change allowing the championship finalists to play an additional game each season. Schools "would probably vote for it with some reluctance ? they probably would agree," Brand says, weighing in on the issue for the first time. "And I probably would, too.

"I have some concerns about the academic side. But two teams? I don't think that's overwhelming."

Cont'd ...

 

[kn1f3party]

This thread will be a thousand pages before we get a playoff so I wouldn't worry about a bump for a news article. Haven't we heard the BCS commissioner say the same thing? I think momentum has us going towards a plus one in the near future and the natural evolution from there would seem to be playoff.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

After some thinking on this issue, I've determined a playoff won't solve shit. The reason? The problem with the BCS isn't the system, it's the fans.

College Football seems to be the only sport where the fans "require" that the named Champion actually be the "BEST" team that year. A playoff does nothing to establish that.

No one thinks NC State was the best basketball team when they won the crown v. Houston (1983, I think) But, we accept them as Champion. Villanova was not better than Georgetown, even though they did beat them for the title in 1985... eveyone knows this, but, people accept the championship. It's the same in the NFL. The Pittsburgh Steelers were hardly the best team.. barely making the playoffs and then winning it all against Seattle.... And, the list goes on. Baseball... basketball.. pro.. college... but NOT with CFB.

A playoff wouldn't solve shit. So long as the fan insists that the Champion be, somehow the actual "Best" team.... Indeed, the "best" team is probably better captured by the BCS system... although, I am no particular fan of the BCS.

 

[methomps]

After some thinking on this issue, I've determined a playoff won't solve shit. The reason? The problem with the BCS isn't the system, it's the fans.

College Football seems to be the only sport where the fans "require" that the named Champion actually be the "BEST" team that year. A playoff does nothing to establish that.

No one thinks NC State was the best basketball team when they won the crown v. Houston (1983, I think) But, we accept them as Champion. Villanova was not better than Georgetown, even though they did beat them for the title in 1985... eveyone knows this, but, people accept the championship. It's the same in the NFL. The Pittsburgh Steelers were hardly the best team.. barely making the playoffs and then winning it all against Seattle.... And, the list goes on. Baseball... basketball.. pro.. college... but NOT with CFB.

A playoff wouldn't solve shit. So long as the fan insists that the Champion be, somehow the actual "Best" team.... Indeed, the "best" team is probably better captured by the BCS system... although, I am no particular fan of the BCS.

College fans are like that because we lack a playoff. Nobody has to earn it by beating several of the top teams in a playoff. Thus, the only way we can rationalize it is to hope that the best team won.

 

[kn1f3party]

Those are two different things though. If the aim of the system is to crown the most deserving team the national champion, it should be even less subjective than the fan's expectations. I don't disagree with you, a playoff won't necessarily crown the most deserving team annually. However, I think a playoff would do a better job than the BCS system in place. This is a problem with sports in general, not just college football. Yet, college football is the only sporting event using a subjective rating system to determine who will compete for a national championship.

Determining which team is best is a matter of definition. What determines if a team is truly the "best?" Because the issue isn't what is the "best" way to determine the "best" team we only have to examine our options. If you examine the BCS system, how does the national champion earn the title of the "best" team? The teams are chosen by subjective rankings--which are even more skewed than they would be with an 8 or 16 team playoff because only the top two matter. Things like scoring some fourth quarter points on a dejected team start to matter, scheduling patsies so you can have a perfect record and hope your school's reputation for tradition and image are enough to get you in to the game, and which conference you play in? None of these truly determine how good a team really is but they are all that really matter in the BCS system and whether we want to admit it or not this is how we get in to the national championship games.

I come from a different school of thought that thinks that determining the "best" team is a little easier when you widen the pool of opportunity, put teams in a position where it is all on the line (spare me the regular season is your playoff argument because it isn't, these kids come from High School where playoffs determine champions and hope to go to the pros where it is the same--they view the regular season as the regular season and only the coaching staff and fans see it differently), and see how they handle the pressure. So I would argue with you that the teams you listed were actually the best that year. They may not have had the records or the glamor of the top tier schools but when it mattered most they performed and the others didn't. That makes them better in my eyes and I won't argue the legitimacy of their championships. When we win this championship and we're discredited by the media, as much as people don't want to admit it, it will affect how we feel about whether or not it was legitimate. We'll hear it all from LSU had 2 losses to OSU took the back door and stole a championship, etc.

Your argument is a matter of semantics: is the most deserving team of the championship the team who has the best athletes or had the best regular season record and the best tradition, or is it the best team the team that defeated the tougher opponents when they had to, when it mattered most and brought home a championship for their school.

As much as we might think the current system is great for Ohio State we're thinking short term. We have the luxury of having history and tradition that isn't rivaled by many. However, occasionally, there is a team out there like last year's Boise State that might be for real and they'll never get the chance to prove it because of our subjectiveness, bias, and close mindedness. A lot of people will change their mind on this, we have barely seen all of the scenarios and problems our current system are going to pose. The fact that it is revised annually is testament to how ill equipped it is at doing its job.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

College fans are like that because we lack a playoff. Nobody has to earn it by beating several of the top teams in a playoff. Thus, the only way we can rationalize it is to hope that the best team won.

Yeah, I suppose there is some truth to that... but, a playoff doesn't establish who's the best. Never has, never will. Hell, we even set up playoffs to favor the "better" teams... if you're the #1 seed, you get the easiest run...

In CFB, virtually all the teams with any real chance of competing for the Crystal play the same schedule. Yes, I know we all argue about SOS all the time, but I'm more and more coming to realize, pound for pound, every schedule is the same as every other schedule. To be clear, there are real differences in schedules, but they're not particularly meaningful.

I digress.... I think people are willing to accept a playoff champion - and CFB fans probably will too, truth be told... but.. the illusion that it would determine who's the best team is pure unadulterated bullshit.

 

[kn1f3party]

I digress.... I think people are willing to accept a playoff champion - and CFB fans probably will too, truth be told... but.. the illusion that it would determine who's the best team is pure unadulterated bullshit.

Maybe not best in your eyes but would it be the best team in most people's eyes? The burden here isn't that it is perfect, but that it is better than the current system. For it to be better than the current system it only has to be more accurate at determining the "best" team. I doubt there would be shared championships in a playoff, which the BCS still poses as a possibility and a problem.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

After some thinking on this issue, I've determined a playoff won't solve shit. The reason? The problem with the BCS isn't the system, it's the fans.

Yeah, and we've also seen that the BCS doesn't solve shit either. No matter what the system, you're to have someone say that the champion isn't really the best team. At least with a playoff, you have the semi-legitimate arugument that the champion more earned its championship than under a one-game system. And it also reduces the "timing" factor of the season (the later the loss, the more it hurts)...by instituting a playoff, deserving teams who happen to lose later will still have a chance at the title. Before anyone argues that we still got into the title game this year despite the 11th-game loss at home to Illinois, keep in mind all the pieces that had to fall into place for that to happen and just how insane this season has been. Any other year and we're not going to the title game.