College Playoff

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I do find that argument somewhat amusing.

If the bowl systems is doing it 'wrong', then how did it manage to become the most popular & largest money maker?


Give me an unseeded +1:
Go back to the pre Bowl Alliance bowl system.

Rose: Big Ten champ vs Pac 10 champ
Sugar: SEC champ vs at large
Fiesta: At large vs at large
Cotton: Big 12 champ vs at large
Orange: ACC champ vs at large

Give the Fiesta the first pick from available teams & rotate the other three.

If the Big 12 would rather stick with the Fiesta over the Cotton...then just switch them.

If the Orange wants to renegotiate to replace the ACC champ with an at large...whatever, have at it.

After bowl week pick the top two teams for a single NC matchup.

Remove the coaches poll from the equation for the selection. Replace it with a voting committee made up of knowledgeable non-partisan (as much as possible) voters.

Use the computers for part of the determination with the caveat that the algorithms be open for peer review & transparency.

That won't make Boise very happy.

Personally, I'm not sure we know anything more after a regular season and a round of bowl games than we already know after the regular season. I suppose it "forces" everyone to play at least ONE high caliber opponent before getting a chance to win the title. Eh.... I'm not thrilled with the +1 model, but I could live with it. I mean, it's one more game of football to watch.. how's that not good? (and yes, guys, I know playoffs will give me even more football to watch. That's about the only compelling reason I can think of for a playoff. But... I once thought the split between Indy Car and CART was great 'cause I'd have more open wheel racing to watch... and it turned out that it pretty much killed any interest I had in open wheel racing, so...)

 

[Muck]

That won't make Boise very happy.

Fuck 'em. Not my problem.

If they hadn't lost to a shitty team they would be playing in one of the big five bowls.

Similarly if Ohio State had taken care of business in Madison they wouldn't be stuck with UConn in the Fiesta.

Personally, I'm not sure we know anything more after a regular season and a round of bowl games than we already know after the regular season.

I don't disagree. But we don't really know anything more after 2-3 rounds of playoff games either...except who's healthy & got hot at the right time.

If you absolutely must...make it a +3. Unseeded bowls & then take the top 4 and make a seeded seminal game with the winners playing for the super mega money bowl. *shrug*

But all the talk of scrapping the bowls for 16 team mega playoffs doesn't bring anything truly compelling to the table.

It brings us back to the "everyone except for the biggest most popular sport is doing something different...therefore the biggest most popular sport must be the one doing it wrong" fallacy.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

Reading back on this thread, it seems the consistent theme is that BKB (and less specifically, a handful of others) holds a staunch opinion on the matter at hand which is based entirely upon preference and perspective and he is unwilling to concede it regardless of the arguments, preferences or perspectives brought up by anyone else in contention with it. Unfortunately, quite a few others have confused his (and others) opinions for the rational conclusion to an argument and are intent on disproving the impossible, often times using their own biased opinions as the foundation for said "reasoning".

Pro tip: Opinions are impossible to prove or disprove no matter how adamantly the person or people involved display them as facts.

This thread has ceased to be a true discussion and devolved into a clinic on circular rhetoric a LONG time ago. :!

 

[kn1f3party]

But, by the same argument, you may be the best team in the country, but lose just one playoff game due to the same problem (e.g., Ted Ginn) and...?

It has taken me a long time to be able to admit this, but we had our asses handed to us and him not getting hurt would not have drastically altered the outcome of that game. Maybe we don't lose as bad, but we still lose.

 

[BB73]

Similarly if Ohio State had taken care of business in Madison they wouldn't be stuck with UConn in the Fiesta.

Looks like many Buckeye fans should cancel their flights to New Orleans.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Reading back on this thread, it seems the consistent theme is that BKB (and less specifically, a handful of others) holds a staunch opinion on the matter at hand which is based entirely upon preference and perspective and he is unwilling to concede it regardless of the arguments, preferences or perspectives brought up by anyone else in contention with it. Unfortunately, quite a few others have confused his (and others) opinions for the rational conclusion to an argument and are intent on disproving the impossible, often times using their own biased opinions as the foundation for said "reasoning".

Pro tip: Opinions are impossible to prove or disprove no matter how adamantly the person or people involved display them as facts.

This thread has ceased to be a true discussion and devolved into a clinic on circular rhetoric a LONG time ago. :!

You left out the part where I've spent hours not just researching the history behind playoffs, but actually going back to 1998 and putting together playoff brackets under 3 different scenarios and evaluating them at length. You left out the part where I used to be a playoff proponent, until I did that research and you left out the part where I did agree with LJBs proposal as it would include playoffs and the part where I found.... now I can't remember who came up with it... some poster's proposal to also be an acceptable idea (to me). EDIT: I think it may have been billmac

So... if you want to minimize my efforts on this topic, that's fine. But, I'm not going to let you doing so pass without calling it the bullshit that it is.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

It has taken me a long time to be able to admit this, but we had our asses handed to us and him not getting hurt would not have drastically altered the outcome of that game. Maybe we don't lose as bad, but we still lose.

While I agree to an extent, you never know what a dynamic player can do in terms of momentum. Momentum is HUGE in an emotional sport like college football. With Ginn Jr.'s big play ability there's no telling what a couple of swift punches to the mouth in response to a few kicks in the gut would've done to Florida's confidence.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

You left out the part where I've spent hours not just researching the history behind playoffs, but actually going back to 1998 and putting together playoff brackets under 3 different scenarios and evaluating them at length. You left out the part where I used to be a playoff proponent, until I did that research and you left out the part where I did agree with LJBs proposal as it would include playoffs and the part where I found.... now I can't remember who came up with it... some poster's proposal to also be an acceptable idea (to me).

So... if you want to minimize my efforts on this topic, that's fine. But, I'm not going to let you doing so pass without calling it the bullshit that it is.

Whoa, now. I didn't leave any of that out. These things are obviously how you reached your opinion. They're the foundation of your perspective and the underlying reasons for your preference. Am I wrong in suggesting that at this point you are unwilling to concede your current stance for anything that's been presented?

I seem to remember reading something along the lines of "there's nothing I currently feel would be significantly better about a playoff" time and time again in your posts. I'm not bashing you, man. I'm also not in any way trying to minimize your efforts and if it came across that way I apologize. I'm simply saying that it's painfully obvious that there are immovable forces at work here and that for the most part some of the back-and-forth in this thread is comical. Surely, you can see my view?

 

[BB73]

Don't call him Shirley.

 

[Zurp]

The best thing about a 16 team playoff is the possibility of 3 more OSU games a year!:osu:

You don't think Ohio State would ever win that 3rd game to make it to the finals?

 

[SloopyHangOn]

You don't think Ohio State would ever win that 3rd game to make it to the finals?

I believe he's assuming that without playoffs we'd still be bowling annually.

 

[BrutusBuckeyeAZ]

I believe he's assuming that without playoffs we'd still be bowling annually.

You are correct sir,:osu:

 

[Saw31]

I believe he's assuming that without playoffs we'd still be bowling annually.

Interesting assumption. Not sure the Bowls would exist with the implementation of a playoff. Certainly not in the form they do now. If the best team a Bowl game could get is #17, I'd make the prediction that very few Bowls would survive, if any...

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Whoa, now. I didn't leave any of that out. These things are obviously how you reached your opinion. They're the foundation of your perspective and the underlying reasons for your preference. Am I wrong in suggesting that at this point you are unwilling to concede your current stance for anything that's been presented?

I seem to remember reading something along the lines of "there's nothing I currently feel would be significantly better about a playoff" time and time again in your posts. I'm not bashing you, man. I'm also not in any way trying to minimize your efforts and if it came across that way I apologize. I'm simply saying that it's painfully obvious that there are immovable forces at work here and that for the most part some of the back-and-forth in this thread is comical. Surely, you can see my view?

I probably misunderstood you, then. No harm, no foul.

To answer your question - I like to think I can be persuaded, but it'll take more than a re-hash of arguments I believe I have already rejected for the rationales upon which I rejected them.

Basically, it comes down to just wanting someone to identify a problem that the BCS has and explain how a playoff limits that problem (if not eliminates it) while also not coming with consequences which are a bigger problem (or as big a problem). It has always been my biggest "beef" with playoff proponents that they, for the most part, start with the premise "Playoffs are better" as if it's self evident. It's not. Likewise, I've invited people to give me one example of a BCS era Champion which is illegitimate and no one has, to my knowledge, been able to identify even one. To be clear, that's not to say people havent pointed to other teams which might have also been good enough to win (ie Auburn, 2004) - just that the inescapable fact is (or so it seems) - the BCS has given us legitimate champions since its inception.... Paired with the Villanova 1985 argument, I must confess, I am reasonably sure there is few arguments out there that will persuade me ... but... again.. I'm still open to a reasoned view.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

Interesting assumption. Not sure the Bowls would exist with the implementation of a playoff. Certainly not in the form they do now. If the best team a Bowl game could get is #17, I'd make the prediction that very few Bowls would survive, if any...

The assumption was based upon not having a playoff system, not not making the playoffs.

12 (maybe 13) regular season games + 1 bowl = 13 (or 14) games.
12 (maybe 13) regular season games + 4 playoff games = 16 (or 17) games.

3 extra in either case.


In regards to whether or not the bowls would survive, I feel like they'd definitely survive. They wouldn't be NEARLY as large at the top, but they'd definitely survive. I could picture them cutting back to 20 or so bowls, which would then leave the top half of the bowl picture not that far from the bottom half and still having one hell of a TV deal.

It would be like the NIT of college football.