College Playoff

[MililaniBuckeye]

a playoff is a concern financially in two ways. jwins and bkb mentioned the first. the second is the decrease in the number of home games. the season will likely be shortened in order to allow for the playoffs.

The season will not shortened to allow for playoffs. I-AA, II, and III don't shorten their seasons. If anything, a playoff will give us additional home games should we seeded in the top eight.

 

[TheRob8801]

...at the end of the day is a playoff system for college football worth loosing scholarships in other sports? is it worth the school not being able to pay for new facilities out of pocket? what im trying to say is when you start messing with tOSU's football schedule the possible consequences affect more than just the football team.

I mentioned it in the post, but I feel like the solution to that would be to raise ticket prices...and of course, as fans that wouldn't be ideal...but for many schools if the price of tickets went up $20 a pop people would gripe and complain a bit, but the stadiums would still sell out...

 

[TheRob8801]

The season will not shortened to allow for playoffs. I-AA, II, and III don't shorten their seasons. If anything, a playoff will give us additional home games should we seeded in the top eight.

Well, I feel like if D-1 were to move to a playoff system, it couldn't be anything near what I-AA, II or III do simply because of the enormity of the sport...in both fanbase and pocketbook.

A playoff system designed to satisfy the fans will never satisfy the schools' or NCAA's pocketbooks...

...and a playoff system designed to satisfy the schools' or NCAA's pocketbooks will never satisfy the fans...

IF a playoff were to happen, it'd have to be somewhere in the middle.

 

[martinss01]

What I do believe is that there should never be a conference game that places a team in the national championship game when there are other conferences out there with equal or greater teams.

no playoff system can guarantee that.

 

[TheRob8801]

no playoff system can guarantee that.

Can guarantee what?

I'm saying no regular season conference game should ever place a team directly in the national championship game...

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

When was the last time we didn't have 100,000+ for a home game, regardless of who we played? We capacity for both YSU games, we had it for New Mexico State, even for Kent State years back. There is no such thing as a "meaningless" football game for Ohio State.

Mili.. did you read my post which you quoted?

Originally Posted by Buckeyeskickbuttocks
I'm not sure how it might relate to Ohio State football, in fact, because the fan base is so large and so rabid. But.. when games are relatively meaningless, I can see where the value in attending them goes down.

In any case, not every school is Ohio State either. It's a little ridiculous to consider the whole of college football - what might be good or bad for it as a game - from the lone angle of what Ohio State fans might do attendance wise. Thus, whether or not Ohio State actually suffers from a playoff is not the point. Though, I think given time, Ohio State's attendance will indeed suffer... as hard as that is for us to believe.

 

[TheRob8801]

Though, I think given time, Ohio State's attendance will indeed suffer... as hard as that is for us to believe.

Not saying it's wrong, but why exactly do you believe that Ohio State (or any school for that matter) will have a drop in attendance.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Not saying it's wrong, but why exactly do you believe that Ohio State (or any school for that matter) will have a drop in attendance.

I already answered that, but here it is again

I'm not sure how it might relate to Ohio State football, in fact, because the fan base is so large and so rabid. But.. when games are relatively meaningless, I can see where the value in attending them goes down. I mean, take a look at the Schott when the Bucks are playing Upper Nobody State...

With football, you've got less games, so more demand - which will help... but, then, at the same time.. if the Buckeyes clinch a PO berth, and they do what Pro teams do - sit the stars - then I can also see people saying "Eh, I'm not going to watch Ohio State's 2nd and 3rd team play"

I believe a playoff scenario puts a premium on gaining enough raw wins, not enough "style points" As a consequence, you schedule cream puffs, not big time games (which you leave for league play, assuming you have some other league power). Gone are Ohio State USC, Ohio State Texas... Now, if you just take conference champs, there's less risk here because you don't "lose" anything in losing an OOC game... Still... If you look at a "conf. champ only" tournament, it's shit. Troy v. USC sucks in September, and it sucks as round one of a playoff. Thus, you need at large bids... if you need at large bids, OOC record becomes important again... thus, Ohio State doesn't schedule USC, they schedule Bowling Green...

And... at 65 bucks a pop.. I'm willing to bet fans lose interest in going to those sorts of "games."

Likewise, when the Bucks (or any team) clinch... well.. you get to a "who cares" sort of deal. That's hard to believe as Ohio State fans, because we've seen a clinched Big Ten before and the Michigan game still mattered to us. But.. Again... over time, I think interest diminishes... Maybe not against Michigan, as Ohio State fans... but... For a typical school...

or those who are "out" altogether... why do fans bother going? They've got nothing to play for. If Michigan State is eliminated by week 8 (and they will be ) Why would a fan of Sparty pay the price of admission when it doesn't matter if they win or lose?

And all of this risk because why? That's the real question... exactly WHAT do you hope to gain by adding a playoff? It can't be a more "legitimate" champ, because the BCS has never produced an illegitimate one.. it can't be on some principle of "fair" because no one ever really means "invite the Sun Belt and MAC champs"... it can't be any reason I've ever seen posited by a playoff proponent.. except one... "I just like it more"

 

[zincfinger]

What I do believe is that there should never be a conference game that places a team in the national championship game when there are other conferences out there with equal or greater teams.

No single conference game currently does place a team in the national championship game. A season's long body of work places a team in the national championship game. A single conference game can only knock a team out of national championship contention.

I'd gladly trade the intensity of regular season conference games like you've mentioned for a game between top dogs from the same or different conferences in the post-season.

And that's fine, but let's just be clear about the fact that this is where you and I differ.

Think about it: If two top teams with opportunities to play for the national championship go at it and play a 2OT game and one team wins by 1pt, meaning one team loses all shot at the national championship game and the other team survives another week...wouldn't it make more sense for a game like that to be played in a planned, scheduled, "1 & Done" format, where there's no REAL debate to be had that the losing team should still be considered for the national championship?

Ohio State/Michigan '07 comes to mind...

...if that were a Final Four game, NOBODY would've had any legitimate argument that Michigan should've had a shot at Ohio State in a rematch for the National Championship...

Of course there will still be debate in a playoff scenario about who "deserves" to be playing for a national championship. There will be situations where a team with a better record loses to a team with a worse record. There will be situations where a team that has already beaten their opponent in the regular season loses to the same opponent in the playoff. As oh8ch has said, playoff games are not "magic". The argument that a playoff eliminates debate and ensure legitimacy is purely one of self-serving definition. I.e. playoff games are different from all other games, in that their results are, by sheer virtue of arbitrary definition, more legitimate than those of all other games. Quite a few people don't see it that way.

Again, a shorter season, with a maximum of 2 OOC games would add more weight to conference games than there currently is...

Why would conference game importance be lost in a national playoff scenario?

This seems like weak tea for arguing why a playoff would enhance the importance of conference games. But since you ask me why it would weaken them, here it is. Currently, with the requirement that you be in the top-2, one conference loss is highly damaging, two conference losses is almost always disqualifying. If you have a playoff (and this is proportional to the size of the playoff), it will be common for teams with one or two conference losses to remain in national championship contention. This clearly diminishes the importance of conference games with respect to national championship eligibility, does it not?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Incidentally "I just like it more" is a perfectly fine reason. I just get tired of trumped up "reasons" which fall flat on their face on any kind of analysis.

There's no "magic" to a playoff.. they don't solve any problem... quite pretending they do... just say "But, I prefer them simply because I do" and leave it at that... That I can respect... but... the arguments in favor... or the "reasons" offered... to me.. have always been crap, which I've always tried to demonstrate why I think they're crap - and thus I remain unconvinced that a playoff is good for college football.

 

[MaliBuckeye]

Incidentally "I just like it more" is a perfectly fine reason. I just get tired of trumped up "reasons" which fall flat on their face on any kind of analysis.

I like this more than other things people are saying.

 

[zincfinger]

Incidentally "I just like it more" is a perfectly fine reason.

To me, that's a perfectly respectable, and by far the most convincing reason for preferring a playoff. "I'd like to see a collection of top-rated teams from different conferences go head-to-head for all the marbles." I agree that would be fun, although I personally don't think it would be worth the diminishment of the regular season that it would inevitably entail. But that "it would be fun" argument seems to me the only pro-playoff argument that is remotely persuasive.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I like this more than other things people are saying.

To me, that's a perfectly respectable, and by far the most convincing reason for preferring a playoff. "I'd like to see a collection of top-rated teams from different conferences go head-to-head for all the marbles." I agree that would be fun, although I personally don't think it would be worth the diminishment of the regular season that it would inevitably entail. But that "it would be fun" argument seems to me the only pro-playoff argument that is remotely persuasive.

Exactly. For my part, as a fan of the college game, my personal stake in this isn't much. That is to say, I will watch college football as much if there are playoffs or if there are not. I mean, I don't just watch Ohio State v. Whoever and call it a Saturday. I watch things like Bowling Green v. Akron. I watch Md. Tenn. St. v. Memphis... I love college football.

But, when I take MY emotion out of it, and I consider what's good for the game, on the merits alone, I can't see any reason to change.

Again, it all comes down to the preliminary question -

"What do you hope to achieve by implementing a playoff - and is that goal something that we don't already have?"

 

[IronBuckI]

I'm not sure how it might relate to Ohio State football, in fact, because the fan base is so large and so rabid. But.. when games are relatively meaningless, I can see where the value in attending them goes down. I mean, take a look at the Schott when the Bucks are playing Upper Nobody State...

With football, you've got less games, so more demand - which will help... but, then, at the same time.. if the Buckeyes clinch a PO berth, and they do what Pro teams do - sit the stars - then I can also see people saying "Eh, I'm not going to watch Ohio State's 2nd and 3rd team play"

Knowing that our second stringers will play against lesser teams hasn't stopped us from selling out games so far. Actually, unlike the NFL, watching our 2nd and 3rd stringers play is pretty exciting because it's a look at the future. When the NFL does it, it's just a look at the scrubs that probably won't be on the roster next season.

Big Ten fans will always travel, which is a big reason why the system is set up to allow many of their opponents to drive.

ACC fans can't even make it to their CCG, they can't be counted upon to make playoff quarterfinals. Miami fans don't even fill their own stadium half the time.

I'm not sure USC fans and southern B12/SEC fans will fill up their half of the stadium for a game held up north in December.

I'm not sure that actually answers my question. If a program or conference doesn't travel well, or even show up to their own home games now, how would having a playoff make it less likely that they would show up to games that they're already not attending.

a playoff is a concern financially in two ways. jwins and bkb mentioned the first. the second is the decrease in the number of home games. the season will likely be shortened in order to allow for the playoffs. if we follow rob's model we are looking at a total of 10 games during the regular season. so thats a max of 6 home games. 8 in conference and 2 ooc. that in and of itself is a financial hit.

at the end of the day is a playoff system for college football worth loosing scholarships in other sports? is it worth the school not being able to pay for new facilities out of pocket? what im trying to say is when you start messing with tOSU's football schedule the possible consequences affect more than just the football team.

You didn't quote Rob's post, and I hadn't read it yet, so I didn't know about the reduction of regular season games. FWIW, I don't think that the regular season will ever be reduced to less than 12 games again. There is simply too much money involved. If a playoff is ever implemented, it will be in addition to the 12+ games of the regular season.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Knowing that our second stringers will play against lesser teams hasn't stopped us from selling out games so far. Actually, unlike the NFL, watching our 2nd and 3rd stringers play is pretty exciting because it's a look at the future. When the NFL does it, it's just a look at the scrubs that probably won't be on the roster next season.

Now, pretend you're a casual fan.

And, incidentally, Ohio State hasn't ever gone in to a game and not had the starters on the field in the first half, and usually a series or two in the second that I can recall. In contrast, it's quite common for the NFL stars to sit out games 15 or 16 when they've clinched.