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- Thread starter wadc45
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GreenwoodBuck
Heisman
So, following the feed since I had to work today. We get to their 41 yard line, running the ball good all game, and you’re telling me Stefanski calls 3 straight passes? One in which Brissett takes a sack, followed by an interception?? And people keep telling me these fucking games aren’t fixed! Bullshit!!!!
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GreenwoodBuck
Heisman
And no I don’t gamble, but for 40+ years, I’ve probably been able to predict how a Browns game will end up 99% of the time
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How can a professional football team have such outrageously uncoordinated defensive back play?
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Specifically aimed at DB performance / lack of coordination only... Bad players is one thing. This is purely coaching
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Stefanski is better than what the Browns have had for awhile, but he’s enamored with forcing throwing the ball. This team is built to run. Jacoby should be the perfect compliment to that, but Stefanski insists on him winning games just like he did with Mayfield.
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Buckeneye
I lead, you follow.
The Falcons are a (great QB) and trench depth away from being a damn good team. I don't think people realize that, but it was pretty apparent in how they played the Rams last week. I don't think that ATL squad is all that bad.
So this "level of competition" comment eludes me. It further eludes me when you take into consideration the Browns starting Dline is (from left to right)
- 2nd year UDFA
- 4th round depth tweener
- 3rd round rotational body
- 4th round rookie.
I'm just not sure what people expect when that is the talent you field at the most exploitable part of your defense.
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3074326
Proud lunatic fringe
I’ve watched all their games this year and they play to the level of the competition. I meant the comment literally.
Their losses are to inferior teams. I am not willing to debate that. Because it’s not my opinion. The Browns on offense and on defense are better than the Falcons and Jets. End of story. Falcons are an average team at best, same with the Jets.
Browns should be beating these teams. Not losing. They also had to rely on a miracle FG to beat the Panthers.
Sure, you can point out the dline for this one game. But not the others.
They continue to make their actual play meaningless with absolutely braindead mistakes, which brings them down to the level of the Panthers, Jets and Falcons. They are better across the board than all of those teams. Including at QB.
Their losses are to inferior teams. I am not willing to debate that. Because it’s not my opinion. The Browns on offense and on defense are better than the Falcons and Jets. End of story. Falcons are an average team at best, same with the Jets.
Browns should be beating these teams. Not losing. They also had to rely on a miracle FG to beat the Panthers.
Sure, you can point out the dline for this one game. But not the others.
They continue to make their actual play meaningless with absolutely braindead mistakes, which brings them down to the level of the Panthers, Jets and Falcons. They are better across the board than all of those teams. Including at QB.
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When they started to run the ball was about the time I really thought the lack of Clowney and Garrett really showed up.
Honestly I don't feel like the DTs did too badly at all.
Linebackers seemed inconsistent especially in coverage.
That said, given you know you're short handed on D, I would have liked to see a lot more urgency on offense.
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ScriptOhio
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
That was inexcusable. Yeah I know we're injured. Yeah I know Kevin Stefanski and Joe Woods were battling to see whether our offensive or defensive play calling could look worse. And yeah I know we're playing with a backup quarterback. But when you have a 4th quarter lead against Marcus Mariota and the Atlanta Falcons, you have to win the ball game. In fact, that's the 4th straight game to start the season in which the Browns held a 4th quarter lead. This team cannot close out games, as we fell to 2-2 with an absolute embarrassment of a loss. I'll turn this one over to Big Cat to speak on behalf of all of Cleveland:
Couldn't have said it better myself. That was a JOKE of a performance today against a team that is absolutely horrible. We had so many chances to win that game, but we pissed them away time and time again. And the blame, while there is plenty to pass around, must start at the top with Kevin Stefanski. That was one of the worst coached football games I've ever seen, and may I remind you that I sat through 40 games of Hue Jackson at the helm. But this one truly was a beauty. Right from the get go, Kevin Stefanski showed everyone that he brought his F game this afternoon.
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continued
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Buckeneye
I lead, you follow.
I'm sorry to say this, but the Browns are an inferior team because of 2 of the most critical position groups in the NFL.
- QB
- IDL/DL
On the simple merit that you can design so many ways to exploit those particular weaknesses as they present themselves more clear than just about any other position groups on the field. You cannot have weak trench play and expect to consistently beat lesser teams. Or to quote the great Lombardi - "Football is two things. It's blocking and tackling."
The former will always be that sort of 'face of the problem'. Baker, starting in 2019, was that problem. Even when fans didn't want to admit it. As efficient as Jacoby can be at times, he's also an incredibly questionable downfield passer for a handful of reasons. His slow(er) decision making process, his ball placement and his inability to have a quick trigger. This is the reason the Browns offensive coaches have simplified things in the short to intermediate passing game sans ball action with simple mirrored concepts, like the TD pass to Njoku vs PIt, easy hi-low's like Yankee concepts on early downs to hit those deep over shots (lord knows Jacoby isn't taking that deepo) and horizontal stretches (that batted X-snag vs the Steelers is an example of the latter vs the PIT cover 3)
These are great because we've played teams who have defensive efficiencies the Browns can take advantage of without elite QB play.
- The Panthers have a decent defensive front, but they're liable against misdirection and the outside zone. As Dallas showed from as early as last year. Classic setting up the pass with run.
- The Jets are decent up front but have youth concerns in the secondary and coverage questions at linebacker. So finding creases in the running game wasn't difficult with an IOL that is top 3 and an emerging Hudson at RT.
- The Steelers simply aren't what they once we're up front. Even with TJ Watt in the lineup, they still get pushed around quite a bit when they go to nickel. That's why, in 2 of the 4 Browns 1st half drives last week, they kept coming out in their "base" defensive personnel, and the Browns were more than content to run 11 personnel to exploit the athletic matchups and them being willing to let their LB's match Njoku low hole when he would be the #3 in our empty sets.
It's also, on the flip side, a great deal of fools gold believing this Dline was a complete unit from week 1. Yes, we have a great duo of edge rushers in Myles and Clowney, no argument there. But this team is bottom 5 on the IDL and even worse when Myles and Clowney are out. And our depth on the edge? forget about it. I say fools gold because the defensive line looked serviceable against a Panthers OL that is, quite possibly, the worst in the NFL. The Jets aren't a whole hell of a lot better, but even then you saw cracks in the walls with some chunk runs when the Jets tried to stay with it. The great thing about the modern NFL is that a lot of coaches aren't patient enough to run the rock when it's there. And the Browns offense was efficient that day so the Jets played pass to keep up. PIT has a garbage OL, and you still saw the Browns defense would give up chunk runs at points, including failing to get off the field on 3rd and short(er) situations where the Steelers didn't hesitate to go right at them. That's no different than Najee picking up 3rd and 2's, 3rd and 3s from the previous year. This echoes back as early as the 2021 season against the Pats when the clear vulnerability of this defense was made present - right up the middle. Teams, even offensively anemic, can exploit that weakness because it's so fundamental. It was only a matter of time an offense had an O.K. offensive line and would stick to that methodical and slow pace to help offset their offensive deficiency - QB (Mariota)
Speaks to the modern NFL front office mindset, I suppose call it "analytics", valuing pass rushers and DB's. Pushing IDL further and further down the list or forgetting about them entirely. Andrew Berry has developed a recent history of showing how he likes addressing this position. Former 1st and 2nd round players, young with good RAS profiles who might have fallen out with their previous team. See; McDowell, Mailk. Bryan, Taven, Jackson, Malik. The problem with that approach is, it's a band-aid at best. McDowell had flashes, but wore down as the season went on, being that he was removed from conditioning for a year and the sheer volume of snaps he took. Taven Bryan just flat out isn't good, but the stat nerds LOVE athletic profiles scores. So they (Berry) were willing to overlook just how god damn bad he was in Jacksonville, because one mans junk is another mans fools gold. And make no mistake, he was awful under Urby, he's every bit as bad here.
What attention has been given to that position have been mid to late round picks - Elliot, Togiai, Winfrey. Now I have high(ish) hopes for the latter of that trio. I think he has the potential to be a good 3 tech. But beyond that, this team has looked for value in the middle rounds and passed on names such as - Gregg Gaines, Alim McNeil and Neil Ferrall. Three who would have helped to shore up a interior desperately need of attention. I get the idea of looking for value at this position group, and lord knows I agree with that philosophy. But when you flat out lack the talent and throwing the darts at the board to bring more in, you can't say things like "Jordan Elliot we have high hopes for" and be taken seriously as a front office. Hope isn't a strategy. It's a deficiency the Browns defense has by design in an NFL that is pass first. But when you're facing teams who don't possess the ability to sling the rock, or are willing to craft gameplan around the patient strategy of going at your ground game weakness, then I parallel that to those great 2000's Colts teams. Freeney, Mathis... it was fun as shit to watch them rush the passer and watch teams attempt to go score for score with Peyton. The problem is, you couldn't beat them at their own game like that. The Patriots understood it, the Steelers understood it as well back then. So they would run right at the Colts first and foremost, and Indy would have no answer as they allowed long scoring drives which kept their greatest weapon on the sideline. You don't fight fire with fire, you choke off the oxygen or bring a shit load of water.
I'm willing to debate that because it is your opinion. You're welcome to review tape, singular or cumulative grades from multiple different services as well. I'll even be happy to post you screenshots of Alex Wright, who was my #1 concern on this Dline when I saw him listed as as starter, being blown up early and often. Watching guards and tackles freely climb to the 2nd level to pickoff an already underwhelming LB group all day. Togiai being parked at the 1tech and letting the center cross his face and seal him inside against a weakside zone. Then the exact same thing when Jordan Elliot was at the same spot as well. Hell, you can have my NFL.com log in and watch the all-22 for yourself.
I would highly encourage you to go back and watch these games with a fresh eye and keep my words in your mind. The defensive weakness is systemic, and begins at a paygrade higher than Joe Woods.
But this defense isn't good because they're weak up the middle. Then they're awful at times because the communication and situational awareness from the secondary can be just as bad at points.
See above about the relative Dline strengths vs bottom feeder Olines on the early schedule. It was only a matter of time. And I'm a man who puts his money where his mouth is - Took ATL +2 today.
On this, we agree completely. Because when you are a flawed team, you have to execute every single down. And the Brownies have made some braindead mistakes the few first weeks that have cost them games (on defense especially)
This is Alex Wright, getting blown up by Drake London on a crack/seal with a weakside pull behind it on the Falcons 2nd play. Please also take note about what I said above about Togiai, because he let the center cross his face and beat him here on this assignment when he was the 1tech. Which happened several times in this game to both him and Jordan Elliot.
This is Alex Wright vs Georgia, the only NFL quality Oline he faced his final year at UAB. Getting hit with a similar crack/seal and frontside pull.
This lack of situational awareness, run fit integrity, and bad fundamental play from his first step to his pad level, was evident when I watched that Georgia game this past April. And when I saw London on a reduced split and seal him inside, I remembered posting that exact play 6 months ago. Georgia ran it a few times to Alex's side and he didn't stand tall once. There are 4 games on Alex as a rookie in the NFL. But if I saw this, not being paid to watch this shit, I have zero doubt assistants in the ATL organization dug deep to help their coaches with material for a gameplan.
The 3rd tier of analytic style devaluation is a contest between LB and TE. LB's are a glue that hold the defense together, but this front office, and multiple across the league, place no importance on them. Jacob Phillips isn't good. Taki is very limited and Young JOK is an undersized weapon who is good at "see ball, get ball". He's still a liability in coverage at times despite his athletic quicks.
I suppose I can agree. Also depends on how you define urgency. What I saw was a team who has done it's best setting up their QB to make the passing game as simple as possible, and a defense who has seen enough to shut down concepts from personnel and formation familiarity. Won't know until 5pm-ish tomorrow, but that failed 4th and 3 on that first drive - I think it was a similar mirrored flat/post that we connected on to Njoku vs PIT last week. Only difference being that we had a 2 receiver set in a short stack to the field. So it would make sense, trying to go back to familiar waters we've found success with and toss in a little window dressing.
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BuckBackHome
Wolverine is largest member of weasel family
I'm pretty sure the clowns did not lose. They are led by a group of the smartest guys in the room. It's unpossible they could lose.
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