Buying an old house...pre 1950

[matt_thatsme]

So, I have decided to look into purchasing an older home. These new developments just aren't my thing. Too many houses that look too similar, sitting way too close to each other. I am fixated on a few different styles, but mainly bungalow/craftsman and cottages. Since most of these homes were built prior to 1950, I would assume that along with the immense charm and character these houses have certain risks/issues. Does anyone have any experience with buying or remodeling homes like this? What kind of things should I be concerned about? What should I look for? etc.

 

[Gatorubet]

So, I have decided to look into purchasing an older home. These new developments just aren't my thing. Too many houses that look too similar, sitting way too close to each other. I am fixated on a few different styles, but mainly bungalow/craftsman and cottages. Since most of these homes were built prior to 1950, I would assume that along with the immense charm and character these houses have certain risks/issues. Does anyone have any experience with buying or remodeling homes like this? What kind of things should I be concerned about? What should I look for? etc.

You should look for financial ruin.

 

[Gatorubet]

So, I have decided to look into purchasing an older home. These new developments just aren't my thing. Too many houses that look too similar, sitting way too close to each other. I am fixated on a few different styles, but mainly bungalow/craftsman and cottages. Since most of these homes were built prior to 1950, I would assume that along with the immense charm and character these houses have certain risks/issues. Does anyone have any experience with buying or remodeling homes like this? What kind of things should I be concerned about? What should I look for? etc.

Seriously, look for an older house that some other poor smuck spent a fortune on to bring the electrical up to code, and that has had the asbestos torn out and the plumbing re-done and the lead paint removed and the foundation fixed and the old insulation removed and replaced by blown-in stuff including the attic roof - and the windows replaced with double pane inert gas energy efficient ones, and the furnace/heat pump/AC replaced and the HVAC re-routed so that you have a separate temp level for each story of the house........but that is just my experience with my 1964 house.

Yours will be worse.

 

[DA-Bucks]

Besides asbestos, lead paint, outdated wiring, inadequate electric service, outdated plumbing, an oil furnace or boiler that should've been replaced 25 years ago, no central A/C, and outdated furnishings; pretty much nothing.

:p

 

[DA-Bucks]

Seriously, look for an older house that some other poor smuck spent a fortune on to bring the electrical up to code, and that has had the asbestos torn out and the plumbing re-done and the lead paint removed and the foundation fixed and the old insulation removed and replaced by blown-in stuff including the attic roof - and the windows replaced with double pane inert gas energy efficient ones, and the furnace/heat pump/AC replaced and the HVAC re-routed so that you have a separate temp level for each story of the house........but that is just my experience with my 1964 house.

Yours will be worse.

dang beat me to it, and I forgot about the windows and insulation...

 

[gregorylee]

fuck all that they said, you got ghosts...

Ask the Torg, he'll tell ya. Fuckin haunted Elmo n shit.

Don't trust the cheeto's. next thing ya know... Blammo, eatin by a tiger.

Believe that.

 

[Best Buckeye]

First off you need to check with the city as most of them require that the house be brought up to code before it can be sold. This means that the electrical and plumbing must be brought up to code before it can be sold to you. If they don't you can make it a condition of the sale.
You will need to read about and then learn the following trades;
electrician, plumber, drywaller, painter. I had a head start because I used most of these in my job in HVAC and restaurant equipment repair.

Many years ago I bought my house and it too was a handyman special. I started out by working on one room at a time, one each year, with the first three being the upstairs bedrooms. I tore out the plaster/gypsum board walls and insulated them and the plumbed the walls with 2x4 scabs and the hung the drywall and taped it and finished it and painted it and cut baseboard and trim and hung it and filled the holes and stained it. I also ran new wiring into each room to add a dditional receptacles in each room.
I also hung new lighting fixtures and replaced all the old cover plates.
To achive this I had to buy or already had:
A crowbar
a flat iron bar
A hammer
a level (you will need several of these. I got a 3 and 6 footer and a bullet)
Residential wire and receptacle boxes
spade drill bits for boring wood 3/4 being the most used.
A compound circular saw. (table model.
New insulation

after I got done with those rooms, and these took several years because of money or just no time I took on the upstairs bathroom. I gutted the walls and ceiling first (remember to get the insulation out of the attic first).
Here is where I made a big mistake in that I didn't tear out the whole floor. this necessitated trying to make two half floors fit and ton of leveling coumpound.I ran all new plumbing from the basement up to and including the drains in the bathroom. While doing this I discovered that the sanitary pipe right at the wall junction had been cracked and just taped over. This made it necessary to open a wall in my living room and cut the black iron pipe with steel blades on my reciprocating saw. Luckily I already owned one for my day job. anyway I had to cut this pipe above and below the "y". don't forget to tie the upper part up since it goes thru your roof as a vent. Then I ran new pvc pipe to replace it and all the drain and water lines in the bathroom. After that I installed a new commode and bath and vanity.
I ran wiring for the setup I wanted and installed new switches and receptacles.
I also rehung new green board in the bathroom and taped and finished and painted it.

Time passed and I was eventually able to stop having nightmares about these renovations and decided that I would be able to take on a real task and redo my living room, the stairway going upstairs and the upstairs hall way all at one time. ( I need a minute here to wipe away my tears and get rid of the flashbacks...)

OK... The first problem I encountered was when I discovered that there were 7, yes 7, ceilings in my living room. These included everything from plaster to drywall to nail up squares. They had even used spikes to nail up furring strips. I pounded a holed in thru all the ceilings larg enough to get some leverage with a ten foot 2x4 and Myself and then a friend who also weighed about 200 lbs discovered the ceiling wouldn't come down. You can imagine me consternation. So I had to tear out each of the 7 ceilings in sections until I had enough levels off to pry down the ones left.

OK we are ready to gut the walls and I told my wife that I had four guys coming over to help. I thought it was a great idea but she threw a fit and said that no one was coming into her house when it was dirty. I may have actually considered divorced as an option.
At ant rate I tore out all those walls by myself, including the ones upstairs that, to my amazement also had multiple walls, plastered and gypsum board. I plumbed the walls as needed, rehung new drywall after I scabbed the walls plumb where needed, ran all new wiring and outlets, insulated the outside walls and the ceiling in the upstairs hallway finished the drywall and painted .
No Lie, this took me from Feb to Nov working every evening and all day Saturdays and Sundays.
Oh yes, The little woman said I couldn't have any help to hang the new drywall either.
Years later I let her talk me into redoing the whole kitchen, including gutting the whole schmear, insulating, new drywall, electrical, plumbing, hanging new counters and cupboards. We put in a new floor but I have that done.
And two years ago we decided to add a new bedroom, walk in closet, and bath with a walk in shower. I decided to be my own general countractor and hired all the contractors thereby saving myself about $15-$20 thousand.
My nephew drew the plans for the City and I pursuaded them that I had the knowledge to conduct this addition.


But hey, I hope I don't deter you from buying an older home. Just be prepared to spend a lot of time and money fixing it up as you can spread the big stuff out over the years.
And remember that even if you buy a new home you will do the same thing as anyone else does, spend the rest of your life fixing it.

 

[wadc45]

Seriously, look for an older house that some other poor smuck spent a fortune on to bring the electrical up to code, and that has had the asbestos torn out and the plumbing re-done and the lead paint removed and the foundation fixed and the old insulation removed and replaced by blown-in stuff including the attic roof - and the windows replaced with double pane inert gas energy efficient ones, and the furnace/heat pump/AC replaced and the HVAC re-routed so that you have a separate temp level for each story of the house........but that is just my experience with my 1964 house.

This is what we did...our home is a 1920 build in German Village but the previous owner's boyfriend was a plumber and the modernization he did in the bathrooms was amazing, including dual flush toilets. On top of that, it had all lead and asbestos torn out and a relatively new furnace put in that is much more energy efficient. I wish they would have done the dual story temp control but it is not that large of a house and the windows that were put in are the double pane/intert ones. The electrical was updated to accommodate all kind of new indoor and outdoor lighting as well as the stainless appliances she put in. Considering what we paid (I think we literally robbed this poor girl), it is amazing how well the house had been updated. Our inspector even knocked $100 of his cost because he said there was going to be so little in his report. I would recommend what these guys are saying and try and find something that has been brought into the 21st century with regards to electrical, plumbing and efficiency.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Our house is a little over one hundred years old. The thing's I'd look for if I were you are the 'big ticket' expenses, as outlined above.

-electrical up to date
-plumbing up to date
-foundation in good condition
-HVAC up to date

Our house was renovated and 'flipped' by the guy we bought from - he redid all the electircal and the plumbing was already in good shape. We have replaced some of the windows and got storm windows on the old 'antique' windows in the oldest parts of the house - we didn't want to replace the single-pane 'wavy glass' windows, so the storms were our option to improve efficency in those areas. Also, we greatly improved the airsealing and insulation in the attics last fall and have noticed a significant difference in comfort and heating bills this winter.

Don't be detered by all the potential obstacles - we absolutely love our house, location and yard. Keep in mind just about anything in your house can be fixed/updated - except the LOCATION.

Good luck!

 

[muffler dragon]

Pretty good chance your heating will be out the roof. Therefore, request a history on the expenditures for the house. This IS information you can get.

 

[Dryden]

Basement
Has it been modernized and finished for living, or is it partly finished for utility use? Check for heaving, cracks, and past damage from water, mold, mildew. Have the basement ceilings already been finished? Huge difference on energy costs if your first floor living areas have insulation underfoot. Egress? Can you get out of the home through the basement in the event of a fire? If you can't, this should be considered in your plans to use the space if you expect to have a family room, office, or kids' rec room downstairs.

Roof
How old is the roof and can you access the attic? Is the attic usable for storage and how old is the insulation? Termites? Is the roof modern post-war era shingles or is this a 100-year old roof with clay tiles?

Electric
How old is the wiring? Does the house have 100-amp service or 200? Push-o-matics, fuses, or modern breakers? Grounded outlets throughout with proper wiring behind them? This is actually not terribly difficult to get replaced and should not be a deal breaker, but you'd be looking at $3,000 - $5,000 in costs if it hasn't been done.

Plumbing/Heating & cooling
Is the plumbing cast iron, has it been partially/completely modernized, do bathtubs have shower heads, etc? How old is the heating & cooling system and has it been regularly serviced maintained. If you buy a home with an old system, if either part breaks (the furnace inside or the compressor/condenser outside) you'll have to replace the entire system, as more recent energy laws/regulations have made a lot of old systems obsolete and unserviceable.

Those are the four major things I think you want to consider. Everything else, no matter how major it *seems,* like remodeling the kitchen to your tastes, pales in comparison to these four.

My wife and I are learning some of this stuff the hard way.

 

[AKAK]

Ok, at this point, it's pretty easy...

Get a reputable home inspector and ask HIM all the questions on here.

 

[calibuck]

Good Luck, Gator and Wade gave you some good advice, along with all the rest. It seemed like everyone above was a "DIYer". I'm not so competent, so hired a contractor (and an architect) to do a remodel/addition. If this is your wont, make sure that the contractor is 'tied' to the architect (this means he/she derives most of income from architect referrals), that will give you some leverage against a contractor that dawdles on your project. Second, agree on a time of completion, and insist on penalties for non-performance. Get to know your City inspector, as he/she will be your 'eyes' on good or plain bad construction. Or hire your own to make sure that the task is done well, as just 'to code'. There can be a difference. It goes without saying that you specify the 'finishes' (which contractor will have as 'owner supplied', contractor installed), so you don't get crappy light fixtures, etc.

When the contractor presents the progress invoice, I would advise that you co-author the check, to ABC contractor and XYZ drywall, Inc. That way you are certain that both are getting paid (or get the lien release in hand if there was a lien put against the construction). It seems crazy, but if the sub-contractor does not get paid, (even if you paid the contractor), then you get to pay twice! Even if there is not an up-front lien for wood, etc. If both countersign to cash your check, you are protected.

Keep track of time. Look around, are you 'on track' to be finished with the addition/remodel with the projected timeline? My wife was upset, as we were showering in the garage in October, and she was freezing (there was a shower set-up in there folks), and that is when I applied the 'finish up' pressure (or I'll implement the penalty clauses......which I did.

You'll end up hating the contractor by the time the project is completed. I have also heard that families get torn asunder by the delays, etc.....sometimes life gets in the way....but good luck. After the scabs heal and fall off, or the scars fade you'll be happy with what you did. Just another perspective, been there, done that.


:gobucks3::gobucks4:

 

[Zurp]

Ok, at this point, it's pretty easy...

Get a reputable home inspector and ask HIM all the questions on here.

Yup.

My house was built in 1942. Here's my stories:
The upstairs toilet wasn't standard. (New toilet didn't match existing floor bolt positions.)
No insulation. Walls are really cold in the winter.
Poor insulation in attic. That's something I should be able to fix - I'm lazy.
Some water pipes are filled with gunk.
We had a new basement system installed last year. They found some cracked/broken drain pipes under the basement.
Before I finished the basement, the "livable" side had 1 outlet. (I've added a bunch.)
None of the outlets in the house were grounded.
The circuit breaker box was poorly labeled, and some outlets don't match where they should be. For instance, one breaker was labeled "basement". I noticed when tearing out the old wires that some wires went up through the floor of the first floor. Sure enough, there's an outlet in the living room that is on the breaker for the basement. Who knows what else is different.
Maybe my all-time favorite: I was installing a lamp post in the front of my house last summer, and figured the easiest thing to do would be to wire it into the existing circuit to the garage. I know - not a very "engineerically sound" way to do it, but if I can invent words like "engineerically", I can wire a lamp post however I want. I get the wire all set up, power is off, etc. My new wire is 3-conductor, colored black, white, and bare. The wire in the outlet in the garage is black, white, and green. So, I stupidly connect black to black, white to white, and bare to green. The lamp doesn't work. I go back and find out that the green was the hot wire, and the black was the ground wire. I should have noticed that the black wire goes down to the ground rod, but still, it was a bit of a surprise. I'm glad I didn't let anyone touch the lamp post while the power was on. Whoever buys the house next is going to be very surprised to see what looks like the hot wire connected to my ground wire.

 

[matt_thatsme]

Thanks all. Great replies. Here are the details on a particular house that I am looking at. The house was built in 1936, but it has been gutted and restored.

• New plumbing and electric - all up to code
• New HVAC
• New fixtures throughout
• New appliances
• All sheetrock removed and replaced.
• Bathroom and Kitchen cabinets replaced.
• Hardwood floors throughout the house have been refinished.
• New insulation has been installed in the attic and basement.

If we decide to move forward on this place, I will, of course, have an inspector with a professional engineer designation do the inspection. I did notice a couple of things that concerned me. Not all of the windows have been replaced. That would be first on my list of upgrades. Also, the basement is not finished which isn't a big deal. However, yesterday we received some pretty substantial rainfall. There was flooding throughout Knoxville. I decided to drive up to the house and looked in the basement. I noticed a small amount of water on the basement floor. I will mention this to the inspector and make sure he spends extra time ensuring that the structural integrity of the foundation is intact. I will also request that the basement be properly waterproofed prior to closing. Finally, it appears that the doors have been repainted, but are old and therefore are likely not very energy efficient. Two of the doors still have skeleton key locks (new deadbolts though). I don't know if I can bring myself to replace those. There is just something cool about having skeleton keys/locks.