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Swedish Chef
Junior
Not necessarily, Kansas State is still 110<sup>th</sup> in all time winning percentage and that is after Bill Snyder’s arrival. Can you even imagine what it was before that? <st1 =""><st1 ="">Kansas</st1> <st1 ="">State</st1> </st1>was just an awful, awful, awful program prior to his arrival.
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/misc/div_ia_winning_pct.php
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He really did do a tremendous job there. That was a football wasteland, and he made them not only competetive, but a real power for a few years. Remember, they were known as Futility U. It's a HUGE loss for their program.
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I agree. Sorry, can't buy this great turnaround story. Scheduling the sisters of the poor and the least competitive schools you can, just to make sure you enter the league unbeaten, isn't really winning. It's just setting your sights lower. He hasn't been the same since the BCS showed how weak his SOS was.
Sorry Toto, this is still Kansas State!
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BrutusBobcat
Icon and Entertainer
Gotta give some props to Gary Barnett for turning Northwestern around also. That program had a horrible history, including holding the nation's longest losing streak at a point.
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Hawaii tied for the biggest increase in wins from one season to another (+9) from 1998 (0-12) to 1999 (9-4). Kansas State is arguably the biggest sustained turnaround in history.
Steve19 said:
I rarely disagree with you, my friend, but here I do. It may be true that their regular season records were regularly inflated by playing OOC patsies, but Snyder inherited a team that went 4-50-1 in the previous five seasons to make them a very good team, including two 11-1 seasons in three years, four straight 11-win seasons, and six 11-win seasons in seven years, including a Big 12 title. Up until then, Kansas State had one single conference championship in its history (1934). They also went 22-2 in conference from 1997-1999 (both losses at Nebraska), and 40-8 in conference from 1995-2000.
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OSU_Buckguy
Head Coach
hawaii? hawaii has been putting up solid, but not outstanding, records since world war II. whatever resurgence or turnaround hawaii had (or not) pales in comparison to barnett's turning around of northwestern. before barnett arrived at northwestern for the '92 season, the wildcats had only one 4-win or better season in the 20 years prior. given northwestern's upcoming win over illinois, the wildcats have had 6 bowl-eligible seasons in the 14 seasons since barnett's first one. sure, he's no longer at the school, but his impact carries on.
edit: if you're talking about one season the next, then, yes, hawaii does have the greatest single season turnaround. however, that hardly accounts for a truly great turnaround of a program, which is what we're talking about with snyder.
edit no. 2: hands down, bill snyder should be credited with the greatest program turnaround. looking at k state pre-snyder and k state post-snyder shows a night-and-day difference, with records for the last decade that are absolutely astounding.
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I don't disagree with what you are saying, Mili, but I do still harbor resentment for those easy OOC games. The fact is that if Snyder had played in the Big Ten, he wouldn't have achieved a winning season in most of those years. The proof lies in the bowl game performance and the power ratings SOS. Here is the SOS rank from Marsee and Snyder's winning percentage.
You are right to point out the turnaround and his performance during those years. You are also right to imply that it's not always about accomplishments in comparison to Ohio State.
However, I still feel that Snyder would not have accomplished that if he didn't play in a conference that was significantly less challenging than the Big Ten most years and, more importantly, if he wasn't playing a schedule of patsies with three or four challenging games thrown in every year.
Year SOS rank W-L
1995 77th 10-2
1996 22nd 9-3
1997 61st 11-1
1998 61st 11-2
1999 90th 11-1
2000 27th 11-3
2001 13th 6-6
2002 68th 11-2
2003 57th 11-4
2004 39th 4-7
2005 54th 4-5
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Steve... part of the point is that prior to Snyder getting there, the "sisters of the poor" would have kicked K-State's ass... and I'm not really talking about the weak OOC schedule that you were, I'm talking about a convent squad.
At any rate, they've gone from getting their shit kicked by Drake and Witchita St. to... well, all the stuff Mili mentioned.
At any rate, they've gone from getting their shit kicked by Drake and Witchita St. to... well, all the stuff Mili mentioned.
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Is a coach of a successful program in the MAC, the WAC, or the MWC not a great coach because of the competition? Bill Snyder built the program from literally nothing. He had to schedule somebody to beat and build experience; and to pad the W column so that he could recruit in the Big 8.
What Bill Snyder did was positively jaw dropping. For KSU, the problem wasn't winning, it was that it wasn't even competitive, nevermind that any games against the Big 8's Holy Trinity (Colorado, Oklahoma, and Nebraska) were over before the teams even stepped off the bus. Bill McCartney's Colorado program was a monster in the early 90's, winning a national title in 1990. Nebraska fielded one of the greatest college football teams in history in the mid 90's in route to national championships in 1994, 1995, and 1997. One of KSU's OOC opponents in 1991, Washington, won the national title that year. Oklahoma was still very competitive, sometimes even posting better-than .500 seasons and making Top-25 appearances despite the lingering hangover and probation from the Switzer era.
To me, Bill Snyder's accomplishments there are every bit as impressive as what Barry Alverez has done at Wisconsin. Barry at least had something to start with. Alverez built the program too by playing directional Illinois and directional Michigan, fattening up the W column until he could eventually field a team that played both Ohio State and Michigan to the final snap in route to winning a Rose Bowl. Despite the fact the Alverez has never beat OSU and UM in the same season (closest was 1993 with a home W against UM and a home T against the Buckeyes), I don't think anyone disputes that Alverez will go down as one of the great coaches in Big-10 history. He did more with less than anyone I can think of in the conference.
Bill Snyder's job building KSU was an even bigger uphill struggle. In the perspective of that program, he would've been a legend simply ending most seasons with a 5-5-1 record and maybe going 6-5 and reaching a bowl every fourth year. Instead he posted 10 W seasons seven times in a nine season span.
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I agree that Kansas State's turnaround was the best in history.
From 1936 through 1989, they had a winning % of .261.
From 1990 through 2003, they had a winning % of .735.
Prior to 1990, they never finished as a ranked team in either poll, and went to only 1 Bowl game, a 1982 Independence Bowl, which they lost to Wisconsin.
Snyder took over a team that had zero wins in the previous 2 years, and they went 7-4 in his third year.
As a comparison, Frank Beamer is often credited with building the Va. Tech program. He took over a team that had a streak of 7 straight winning seasons, and started off with 2-9 and 3-8 years. It took him 7 years before he got his first 7-win season.
From 1936 through 1989, they had a winning % of .261.
From 1990 through 2003, they had a winning % of .735.
Prior to 1990, they never finished as a ranked team in either poll, and went to only 1 Bowl game, a 1982 Independence Bowl, which they lost to Wisconsin.
Snyder took over a team that had zero wins in the previous 2 years, and they went 7-4 in his third year.
As a comparison, Frank Beamer is often credited with building the Va. Tech program. He took over a team that had a streak of 7 straight winning seasons, and started off with 2-9 and 3-8 years. It took him 7 years before he got his first 7-win season.
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