• Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
  • Consider registering! Fewer and higher quality ads, no emails you don't want, access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Even if you just want to lurk, there are a lot of good reasons to register!

Awesome Rivalry

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
Good stuff. It's difficult to determine from your post, because some outcomes are duplicated in the raw numbers of Ws and Ls, but it appears that the two teams have determined the Big-10 championship between themselves about 40 times in the last 70 match-ups. I'd be interested to know how many times the loser of The Game has outright lost the title, thereby crowning one of the other 8 or 9 teams Big-10 champ.

In other words, have OSU and UM ever been bad enough the same year that The Game was rendered meaningless in terms of the conference race?
 
Upvote 0
Dryden said:
Good stuff. It's difficult to determine from your post, because some outcomes are duplicated in the raw numbers of Ws and Ls, but it appears that the two teams have determined the Big-10 championship between themselves about 40 times in the last 70 match-ups.
Click to expand...
There were several years when the two shared the big ten title. For instance, in 1986, Michigan won, but both teams were 7-1 in big ten. That counts as Ohio State losing The Game, but winning at least a share of the title, AND as Michigan winning The Game, and at least a share of the title. So you can't just add the number of championships between the two teams and come up with the number of years one of the teams won the championship.

Dryden said:
I'd be interested to know how many times the loser of The Game has outright lost the title, thereby crowning one of the other 8 or 9 teams Big-10 champ.

In other words, have OSU and UM ever been bad enough the same year that The Game was rendered meaningless in terms of the conference race?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I'd guess that at least 50% of the time, neither tOSU or scUM won the conference.
 
Upvote 0
Breakdown of The Game determing the B10 title you say?

[pre] Since the Michigan-Ohio State game was moved to the final week of the conference season in 1935, the Wolverines and Buckeyes have decided the Big Ten championship between themselves 20 times. The following is a list of those classic matchups:
YEAR M OSU RESULT

1944 14 18 Ohio State is Big Ten champion. (Had M won Michigan and Ohio State would have shared the title)
1949 7 7 Michigan and Ohio State are co-champions; OSU goes to the Rose Bowl because of a better overall record.
1950 9 3 Michigan is Big Ten and Rose Bowl champion. (Had OSU won the Buckeyes would have won the title and Wisconsin would have gone to the Rose Bowl.)
1954 7 21 Ohio State is Big Ten and Rose Bowl champion. (Had M won, the teams would have shared the title and M would have gone to the Rose Bowl.)
1955 0 17 Ohio State is Big Ten champion (but by conference rules, cannot go to the Rose Bowl two consecutive years); Michigan State goes to Rose Bowl (Had Michigan won, U-M would won the title and gone to the Rose Bowl).
1964 10 0 Michigan is Big Ten and Rose Bowl champion. Had OSU won, it would have been Big Ten champion
1968 14 50 Ohio State is Big Ten and Rose Bowl champion. (Had UM won it would have won the title and gone to the Rose Bowl.
1969 24 12 Michigan and Ohio State share the Big Ten championship and UM goes to the Rose Bowl. (Had OSU won it would have won the title outright)
1970 9 20 Ohio State is Big Ten champion and goes to the Rose Bowl. (Had UM won, it would have won the title.)
1972 11 14 Michigan and Ohio State are co-champions, OSU goes to the Rose Bowl. (Had UM won it would have won the title outright.)
1973 10 10 Michigan and Ohio State are co-champions; Athletic Directors' vote sends OSU to the Rose Bowl.
1974 10 12 Michigan and Ohio State are co-champions; Ohio State goes to Rose Bowl by beating Michigan. (Had UM won it would have won the title outright)
1975 14 21 Ohio State is Big Ten champion and goes to the Rose Bowl. (Had UM won it would have won the title outright)
1976 22 0 Michigan and Ohio State are co-champions; Michigan goes to the Rose Bowl by beating Ohio State. (Had OSU won it would have won the title outright)
1977 14 6 Michigan and Ohio State are co-champions; Michigan goes to the Rose Bowl by beating Ohio State. (Had OSU won it would have won the title outright)
1978 14 3 Michigan and Michigan State are co-champions; Michigan goes to the Rose Bowl because MSU is banned from post-season play. (Had OSU won, Michigan State and Ohio State would have shared the title, sending OSU to the Rose Bowl.)
1980 9 3 Michigan is Big Ten and Rose Bowl champion. (Had OSU won it would have won the title outright)
1986 26 24 Michigan and Ohio State are co-champions; Michigan goes to the Rose Bowl by beating Ohio State. (Had OSU won it would have won the title outright)
1997 20 14 Michigan is Big Ten Champion. (Had OSU won it would have shared the title with Michigan
2003 35 21 Michigan is Big Ten Champion. (Had OSU won it would have won the title outright)

In addition, these 21 games had an effect in determining the Big Ten champion:
YEAR M OSU RESULT
1935 0 38 Ohio State and Minnesota share Big Ten championship. (Had UM won, Minnesota would have won the title outright)
1938 18 0 Minnesota is Big Ten Champion (Had OSU won , it would have shared the title)
1942 7 21 Ohio State is Big Ten champion (Had Michigan won, Wisconsin and Michigan would have shared title)
1943 45 7 Michigan and Purdue are Big Ten co-champions. (Had OSU won, Purdue would have won the title outright)
1948 13 3 Michigan is Big Ten Champion. (Had OSU won, Michigan and Northwestern would have shared the title)
1952 7 27 Wisconsin and Purdue are Big Ten co-champions (Had Michigan won, UM would have won the title outright).
1956 19 0 Iowa is Big Ten champion (Had Ohio State won, OSU would have shared title).
1961 20 50 Ohio State is Big Ten champion (Had Michigan won, Minnesota would have won title).
1979 15 18 Ohio State is Big Ten champion (Had Michigan won, Ohio State, Purdue and U- M would have shared title).
1981 9 14 Ohio State and Iowa are Big Ten co-champions (Had Michigan won, U-M would have won title).
1984 6 21 Ohio State is Big Ten champion (Had Michigan won, Ohio State, Illinois and Purdue would have shared title).
1988 34 31 Michigan is Big Ten champion (Had OSU won, -Michigan State and UM would have shared title)
1989 28 18 Michigan is Big Ten champion (Had OSU won, Michigan, Illinois and Ohio State would have shared title).
1990 16 13 Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, and Michigan State are Big Ten co-champions (Had Ohio State won, OSU would have won the title outright).
1991 31 3 Michigan is Big Ten champion (Had OSU won, Michigan would have shared the title with Iowa).
1993 28 0 Wisconsin and Ohio State are Big Ten Co-champions (Had OSU won, the Buckeyes would have gone to the Rose Bowl).
1995 31 23 Northwester is Big Ten Champion. (Michigan defeated previously unbeaten and second-ranked Ohio State. Had OSU won they would have shared the title and gone to the Rose Bowl.
1996 31 23 Ohio State and Northwestern are Big Ten Champions. (Had OSU won, it would have won the title outright.)
1998 16 31 Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin are co-champions, Wisconsin goes to the Rose Bowl. (Had UM won it would have won the title outright and gone to a second straight Rose Bowl)
2000 38 26 Michigan, Purdue and Northwestern are Big Ten champions. (Had OSU won, it would have shared the title with Purdue and Northwestern
2001 20 26 Illinois is Big Ten champion (Had UM won it would have shared the title with Illinois and earned the conference berth into the Bowl Championship Series)
2002 9 13 Ohio State and Iowa tie for the Big Ten title. (Had UM won, Ohio and Michigan would have tied for second.)
2004 21 37 Michigan and Iowa are Big Ten Champions. (Had UM won it would have won the title outright. Had Wisconsin defeated Iowa the Badgers would have tied UM for the title and gone to the Rose Bowl based on a better overall record.)
[/pre]
Click to expand...
 
Upvote 0
Going back to 1935 (someone said that that was the first year the two began playing every year - last game of the year), the record is now 32 for OSU, 35 for scUM, 4 ties. Michigan holds a 19-14-3 record in AA, and OSU holds an 18-16-1 lead in Columbus. The average score is less than a point apart - Michigan 16.55 to Ohio State 15.63. The home team is only 37-30-4 in those 71 games. And, as I've stated before (probably in this thread) the "blowin' it" stat is tied at 15 since 1935.

I've found another way to grade the closeness of the rivalry. I gave the winner of each game a point. If that game was won in the other team's field, they get another point. Finally, if the team with the worse record won the game, they get another point. For example, in 2001, Ohio State won (1 point) in Ann Arbor (1 point), and had the worse record before the game (1 point), for a total of 3 points. The overall score, since 1935 isn't as close as I would have hoped. Michigan leads 66-55. However, since 1951 (when some guy who refused to wear a coat started coaching for Ohio State), the score is tied 48-48.

Anyway, I thought it was a little bit neat.
 
Upvote 0
Maybe this is neat, too. Using the same scoring system I just stated, check out the coaches' individual scores:

Pre-Woody (I haven't broken them up): OSU 7, UM 18
Hayes: OSU 26, UM 20
Bruce: OSU 11, UM 7
Cooper: OSU 3, UM 19
Tressel: OSU 8, UM 2

I was always one of the bigger Cooper supporters (which doesn't say much). Don't get me wrong - I now realize that I was wrong to think Ohio State shouldn't have fired him. But these results make it really hard to support the guy. He gave up almost as many points with this system in 13 years as Woody did in 28 years.
 
Upvote 0
Funny that this was bumped today, because I just updated my text file a couple of days ago. :)

(Last updated 01-15-2006)

History since 1935 (when "The Game" was moved to the last game of the regular season schedule):

OSU 32 - UM 35 - TIES 4
OSU 27 Big-10 Championships - UM 27 Big-10 Championships
OSU 5 National Championships ('42, '54, '57, '68, '02)* - UM 2 National Championships ('48, '97)
OSU 6 Heisman Trophies ('44, '50, '55, '74, '75, '95) - UM 3 Heisman Trophies ('40, '91, '97)
OSU 132 All Americans - UM 110 All Americans
OSU 18-18-0 (.500) in Bowl Games - UM 17-19-0 (.472) in Bowl Games
OSU 6-6-0 (.500) in 12 Rose Bowl Appearances** - UM 7-11-0 (.388) in 18 Rose Bowl Appearances
OSU 538-184-22 (.723) - UM 534-201-17 (.710)

* The NC measurements are subject to debate. I'm tracking the generally accepted consensus and/or split titles from the AP, UPI, and Coaches Polls. If you count the NCAA's record book for titles recognized by schools, the line would actually read:

OSU 7 National Championships ('42, '54, '57, '61, '68, '70, '02) - UM 3 National Championships ('47, '48, '97)

** One stat that is diminished (or not a true reflection of the parity of the two programs) is the Rose Bowl appearances measure. OSU has missed three Rose Bowl appearances to UM's one:

OSU missed the 2003 Rose Bowl following a 13-0 season in 2002 for the Fiesta Bowl BCS National Championship game, declined the 1962 Rose Bowl invitation at the conclusion of the 1961 season, and was prohibited from appearing in the 1956 Rose Bowl due to the "no repeat" rule after turning in a 7-2-0 record in the 1955 season, highlighted by a 6-0-0 conference run.

UM was denied a Rose Bowl appearance as a result of the "no repeat" rule for the 1949 Rose Bowl, following an undefeated 9-0-0 1948 national title campaign (itself a follow-up of the 10-0-0 team from 1947).
 
Upvote 0
FWIW, since 1935, Michigan is 17-8-1 in games against Ohio State when they had the better record going in. Ohio State is 22-14-1 in the same. Michigan leads 4-2-2 in games where they have the same winning percentage.
 
Upvote 0
Ohio State has scored exactly 100 points more than TSUN in The Game since 1954 (and since 1952, due to a 20 point loss in '53 and a 20 point win in '52). This is the high-water mark for "point advantage" in the series until you get back to 1909, which is 10 years before OSU's first win.

The 100 point advantage is completely erased as you go back from there to just 1945. The reason for this (TSUN outscoring OSU by 100 points between 1945 and 1952) is that TSUN's program was much less disrupted by WWII than was Ohio State's.

Losing Paul Brown hurt (he left to go fight in the war IIRC).

But without that - we probably never would have had Woody.

1954 (and 1952) is (are) also of note for another reason. Those years are the high-water mark, outside of the present era, for win-loss advantage. Ohio State has a 6 game advantage going back to 1954 (and 1952).

TSUN had a relative high-water mark (3 games (18-15-1) in 1976 (the year after Archie). Their highest win-loss advantage does not exceed that until you count back to 1922 (44-40-4). Thanks to Chic Harley, the TSUN advantage shrinks to 44-43-4 (1 game) by 1919, which was the year of OSU's 1st win in the series. TSUN win-loss advantage does not reach 6 games until you count back to 1908.

But even that is not enough. Ohio State has one era whence their win-loss advantage reaches 7 games, the highest such advantage for either team in over 100 years (for eras which end with the 2009 game). As you have, no doubt, already surmised, the Buckeyes' 7 game advantage is the 8-1 mark posted since the 2001 season. All of this is made very plain by the following graph of Win-Loss advantage dating back to 1897. Note the giant peaks (comparatively) that mark the beginnings of the Hayes and Tressel Eras.

W-LTheGame.jpg


Thanks Tress.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top