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martinss01
blissfully stupid
if i made that assertion i apologize, that wasn't my intent. you driving an auto doesn't make you a worse driver than someone who drives stick. it does however, make it easier and more likely that you would be distracted by something that would impair your ability to drive. when i drive my truck it is almost impossible to talk on a phone. expecially in town or on a rural road. i simply don't have a free limb to do so. when you drive an auto you have at a minimum of a free hand. the likelyhood of you doing something with your free hand that does not involve driving than me is significantly greater. that doesn't mean you will. you could be one of those anal 10 and 2 people for all i know. im just saying the odds are greater.
actually i was trying to state that it forces you to be more conscious of the road, its condition, and surrounding vehicles. if i want to merge into a faster lane in an auto i simply put my foot down. if i want to do so with a stick, i have to know how fast i am going reletive to the people in the lane i wish to merge with in order to best select the appropriate gear. do i need to downshift to increase speed? do i need to stay in the same gear i am currently in? am i deep into readline and need to upshift? what are the road conditions? am i at a stoplight in wet/cold environment? if so i need to be heavier on the clutch and lighter on the gas to avoid spinning. such familiarity with slipage and the like at low speeds not only helps me avoid it at high speeds but also if it were to happen, i have more experience in how to handle it. whereas somone in an auto who had never experienced accidently popping the clutch on a wet surface would have less experience with such a situaiton and would be more inclined to make a mistake.
i completely agree that a bad driver is a bad driver regardless their tranny of choice.
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Fungo Squiggly
Mortal enemy of all things Bucky
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Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying/expounding on your points. I think I misinterpreted some of your statements, but I now understand what you were saying.
I still contend that I am the best driver in the world!
I still contend that I am the best driver in the world!
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OSU_Buckguy
Head Coach
from thetruthaboutcars.com:
Death to The Stick Shift
23 November 2004
By Bob Elton
Another stick shift car bites the dust (and gets a free shower)
Check out the standard features on the latest automotive delicacy. Electronic engine controls? Check. Variable valve timing? Check. Throttle by wire? Anti-lock brakes? Speed-variable power steering? Electronic stability system? All-wheel drive? HID headlights? Air bags, front and side? Check, check and double check. Archaic system of transferring engine power to the wheels requiring the use of 2 feet, 3 pedals, both hands, visual, aural and fine motor coordination to operate the car? Yep, got that too.
Of course, the last feature is actually a traditional manual transmission and clutch. It seems that engineering progress has reached everywhere in the enthusiast's car except for the footwell. Today's manual clutch is the same antiquated system that's been around for the last 100 years, and it's a fundamentally unsafe way to control a car.
Driver distraction is a real bitch.
Driver distraction is one of the major causes of vehicle accidents. According to a 2001 national survey conducted by the Network of Employers for Traffic Safety (NETS), roughly 25% of all fatal automobile accidents are caused by driver inattention. Although this research didn’t examine the role of the manual transmission, its potential risks are patently obvious. Operating a manual transmission is an inherently difficult and dangerous procedure...
To start from standstill, the driver must coordinate both feet, using the right foot to bring up the engine speed and the left foot to slowly engage the clutch. At the same time, he has to judge the engine speed to anticipate the change to another gear. This he does aurally (listening to the revs) or visually (watching the tachometer). Listening to the engine can distract the driver from important auditory stimuli (e.g. approaching emergency vehicles), while watching the tachometer removes his eyes from the road. At the same time, neither foot is available for instantaneous braking.
A skinned Mercedes CLK automatic transmission. That's better!
Once underway, the dance of the feet begins anew-- except now the driver must use his or her right hand to move the shift lever in coordination with his or her feet. The lack of a foot available for the brake pedal is even more critical since the car is now moving faster, and the driver is now steering with one hand.
Consider that this has to happen five or six times just to get to cruising speed, requiring driver concentration at some level. The amount of distraction caused by downshifting, shifting while turning a corner, and so on is even greater. Heaven help the chicken that decides to cross the road in front of a driver using a manual transmission.
VW's brilliant DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) gives drivers the best of both worlds-- except one of those worlds is still dysfunctional.
Contrast this process with the fine art of driving an automatic transmission. The driver slips the shifter into drive and presses the accelerator. He’s free to carve a corner without reacting to changes in vehicle speed or conditions by removing his right foot from the gas pedal. The transmission’s electronic control system monitors the vehicle’s speed, lateral and longitudinal acceleration; the steering wheel position and acceleration; and changes gear ratios accordingly.
Stick shift sticklers often defend their archaic rituals by arguing that manual transmissions are more fuel-efficient. Not so. While EPA numbers occasionally favor manual versions of a particular car, the comparison is skewed by the testing process, differences in gear ratios, engine tuning and vehicle option content. In real-world operation, manual cars never get mileage as good as a comparable automatic. The manual's mechanical efficiency advantage is always lost because drivers never shift optimally for efficiency. Engines are invariably over-revved, either through ignorance or the pursuit of aural pleasure. A properly sorted automatic is always in the correct gear, never makes a mistake, and demands infinitely less attention from the driver.
Why do enthusiasts cling to manuals when the safety and efficiency drawbacks are so obvious, and the alternative automatic transmission so well developed? Sometimes it's ignorance. Many enthusiasts have never driven a car equipped with a state-of-the-art automatic transmission, complete with electronics that adapt to the sporting driver's shifting preferences. More often the attitude is rooted deep in the car enthusiast's psyche: "I want to be in control" or "It connects me more intimately with the car". Strip away the human vs. mechanical rationale and Zen posturing and all that remains is simple, willful resistance to change and progress.
The manually shifted automatic transmission seems to offer a compromise solution. These systems give enthusiast drivers the option of overriding the automatic function with either a separate gate to manipulate the transmission's logic circuit, or paddle shifters that ape the controls of a Formula One car. It’s a logical “cake and eat it too” solution.
Though admirably sophisticated, the combined manual - automatic transmission is a technological dead-end. By the middle of the last century, many American automobiles used variations of the semi-automatic transmission. None survived the development of the automatic transmission, for four good reasons: safety, reliability, driving pleasure and, above all, common sense.
Death to The Stick Shift
23 November 2004
By Bob Elton
Another stick shift car bites the dust (and gets a free shower)
Check out the standard features on the latest automotive delicacy. Electronic engine controls? Check. Variable valve timing? Check. Throttle by wire? Anti-lock brakes? Speed-variable power steering? Electronic stability system? All-wheel drive? HID headlights? Air bags, front and side? Check, check and double check. Archaic system of transferring engine power to the wheels requiring the use of 2 feet, 3 pedals, both hands, visual, aural and fine motor coordination to operate the car? Yep, got that too.
Of course, the last feature is actually a traditional manual transmission and clutch. It seems that engineering progress has reached everywhere in the enthusiast's car except for the footwell. Today's manual clutch is the same antiquated system that's been around for the last 100 years, and it's a fundamentally unsafe way to control a car.
Driver distraction is a real bitch.
Driver distraction is one of the major causes of vehicle accidents. According to a 2001 national survey conducted by the Network of Employers for Traffic Safety (NETS), roughly 25% of all fatal automobile accidents are caused by driver inattention. Although this research didn’t examine the role of the manual transmission, its potential risks are patently obvious. Operating a manual transmission is an inherently difficult and dangerous procedure...
To start from standstill, the driver must coordinate both feet, using the right foot to bring up the engine speed and the left foot to slowly engage the clutch. At the same time, he has to judge the engine speed to anticipate the change to another gear. This he does aurally (listening to the revs) or visually (watching the tachometer). Listening to the engine can distract the driver from important auditory stimuli (e.g. approaching emergency vehicles), while watching the tachometer removes his eyes from the road. At the same time, neither foot is available for instantaneous braking.
A skinned Mercedes CLK automatic transmission. That's better!
Once underway, the dance of the feet begins anew-- except now the driver must use his or her right hand to move the shift lever in coordination with his or her feet. The lack of a foot available for the brake pedal is even more critical since the car is now moving faster, and the driver is now steering with one hand.
Consider that this has to happen five or six times just to get to cruising speed, requiring driver concentration at some level. The amount of distraction caused by downshifting, shifting while turning a corner, and so on is even greater. Heaven help the chicken that decides to cross the road in front of a driver using a manual transmission.
VW's brilliant DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) gives drivers the best of both worlds-- except one of those worlds is still dysfunctional.
Contrast this process with the fine art of driving an automatic transmission. The driver slips the shifter into drive and presses the accelerator. He’s free to carve a corner without reacting to changes in vehicle speed or conditions by removing his right foot from the gas pedal. The transmission’s electronic control system monitors the vehicle’s speed, lateral and longitudinal acceleration; the steering wheel position and acceleration; and changes gear ratios accordingly.
Stick shift sticklers often defend their archaic rituals by arguing that manual transmissions are more fuel-efficient. Not so. While EPA numbers occasionally favor manual versions of a particular car, the comparison is skewed by the testing process, differences in gear ratios, engine tuning and vehicle option content. In real-world operation, manual cars never get mileage as good as a comparable automatic. The manual's mechanical efficiency advantage is always lost because drivers never shift optimally for efficiency. Engines are invariably over-revved, either through ignorance or the pursuit of aural pleasure. A properly sorted automatic is always in the correct gear, never makes a mistake, and demands infinitely less attention from the driver.
Why do enthusiasts cling to manuals when the safety and efficiency drawbacks are so obvious, and the alternative automatic transmission so well developed? Sometimes it's ignorance. Many enthusiasts have never driven a car equipped with a state-of-the-art automatic transmission, complete with electronics that adapt to the sporting driver's shifting preferences. More often the attitude is rooted deep in the car enthusiast's psyche: "I want to be in control" or "It connects me more intimately with the car". Strip away the human vs. mechanical rationale and Zen posturing and all that remains is simple, willful resistance to change and progress.
The manually shifted automatic transmission seems to offer a compromise solution. These systems give enthusiast drivers the option of overriding the automatic function with either a separate gate to manipulate the transmission's logic circuit, or paddle shifters that ape the controls of a Formula One car. It’s a logical “cake and eat it too” solution.
Though admirably sophisticated, the combined manual - automatic transmission is a technological dead-end. By the middle of the last century, many American automobiles used variations of the semi-automatic transmission. None survived the development of the automatic transmission, for four good reasons: safety, reliability, driving pleasure and, above all, common sense.
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martinss01
blissfully stupid
I can't believe you fuckers argued so long about transmissions
*snickers* go find one of these convo's on a car forum.... dems can get ugly
. in fact, OSU_Buckguy i pray you never post that on a car forum. the last time i saw that article posted people broke out physics models to illustrate their point. one guys post was nearly half the entire length of a single page of the thread. he did a comparison of the inner workings of comparable autos and sticks to determine which tranny was more efficient and supplied all the relevant numbers. i am not exaggerating one bit! last time i saw the thread it was well over 700 pages and a lynch mob was being formed... if they ever caught him id imagine he is now the late mr. elton.
personally i find it amusing that an opinion article can be found on a website named "thetruthaboutcars.com".
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Pheasant
This space for rent.
It's easier to start from a standstill with both feet, but you can do it with one in a pinch. I can't remember the last time I looked at my tach, and I listen to the radio loud enough that I can't hear my engine (Toyota V-6's aren't known for their rumble). I rarely use the clutch after 1st gear, unless I'm really getting on it.
Other than those points that part of the article is spot on
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martinss01
blissfully stupid
It's easier to start from a standstill with both feet, but you can do it with one in a pinch. I can't remember the last time I looked at my tach, and I listen to the radio loud enough that I can't hear my engine (Toyota V-6's aren't known for their rumble). I rarely use the clutch after 1st gear, unless I'm really getting on it.
Other than those points that part of the article is spot on
i could pick that article completely apart in my sleep. that "thing" is one of the most ignorant pieces of rubbish i have ever seen. if i didn't know better i would believe it came from the onion.
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