Are college grads getting dumber...

[buckiprof]

My opinion on this is that it starts at the K-8 level. Forever, our universities have been the envy of the world.

US students in math and science actually score near the top, when tested against the world that is, up until about grade 5-6. In grades 6-9, roughly, the US drops to middle of the pack and by the end of HS, US students are basically at the end of the pack. The question that keeps coming up is how can US students go from tops, or near tops, in elementary school to fall to the rear, or damn close to it, by the time they leave HS? There are many reasons, however IMO a main one, is lowering of standards which has dummied down the curriculum and as a result led to perpetual boredom for our students. I have always believed in having high standards, as my students can attest, because I believe that in general, students will strive to attain whatever the standard is so why not set it high? (You are 100% correct about the US university system being the envy of the world.)

However you want to cut up the pie after its made, science and technology are the only things that make the pie bigger, and I am not so optimistic on the future of our bakers right now. I hire about six or so college or recent college grads into my group a year. Even though it is a finance position, a premium is placed on quant skills - almost everyone I hire has a science/math/eng degree. The sad part - when I cull through resumes, looking at just the qualifications, I pull out maybe the top 10% of the total to interview. Of that top 10%, almost without exception the kids from China and India outnumber the kids from the US by at least 5 to 1. Makes me a little scared for our future when I think about it.

At times I too share your concern about the future. Usually when I see laziness as the main hindrance in some students who plan on becoming engineers. When counseled that it takes much hard work to earn an engineering degree, well, it has no effect on some. However, I also have many very bright hard-working students who have an unlimited future, I just wish there were more of them.

It is shameful that an institution like Ohio State allows anyone to graduate without completing Math 148 at a minimum (Math 150 would be the better choice). On the other hand, I also think it is shameful that anyone can graduate from a university these days without obtaining a basic, reading comprehension level in a foreign language.

I agree!! Any college degree should require a college level mathematics course. As for the foreign language, I was required by OSU to have 20 quarter hours of a foreign language to earn my BS in mathematics. I took Romanian and ended up with a minor in it. Little did I know that when I took my first full-time position in Phoenix that I would have several students who had recently come to the US from Romania. Needless to say, it freaked them out to find someone in the US, who has no connection to Romania at all, that could speak some of their native tongue. One of the beauties of a well-rounded education; ya never know when you will use it.

The desire to increase enrollments in order to obtain greater tuition revenue and state subsidies has contributed to the watering-down of the curriculum at many fine institutions.

BINGO!!

 

[TheStoicPaisano]

It is shameful that an institution like Ohio State allows anyone to graduate without completing Math 148 at a minimum (Math 150 would be the better choice). On the other hand, I also think it is shameful that anyone can graduate from a university these days without obtaining a basic, reading comprehension level in a foreign language. As has already been pointed out by others, it is not even so much that people will use these skills in the future, but it is the critical thinking and analytical skills developed by taking such courses.

Dammit, I thought 150 was the minimum for graduating, let alone for those in the honors program. That's what I was told when I came in, and that's what I took.

I was also under the assumption that every Ohio State student has to go through the 104 level in a foreign language, regardless of major. Based on what I just read about the math requirements, that may be wrong. Regardless, this area is one where OSU is a bit ahead of the curve.

My cousin, who is in the engineering program at U. of Illinois, has no foreign language requirement whatsoever.

 

[NewYorkBuck]

US students in math and science actually score near the top, when tested against the world that is, up until about grade 5-6. In grades 6-9, roughly, the US drops to middle of the pack and by the end of HS, US students are basically at the end of the pack.

Prof - I didnt know about the early years. So it looks like for the seven year period from 6-12 is where we lose it. Since this is the time we go from first to worst we need to focus on why this happens at this time.