Any property lawyers out there?

[gregorylee]

Here is the situation. I built a privacy fence about 5 years back, at the time there was only an empty field behind my house. Since then within the last 2 years they have developed that field with single family housing. The lots are kinda small, well lets put it this way, I have 2 1/2 back door neighbors. Anyway, one of them decided to put up a fence, and without asking they just butted it up to mine (built the two sides and gates at the front but are using mine as the rear boundry). I know this is within my property lines anywhere from 6 " to a foot. Honestly if they would've asked I would have more than likely said yes, but I don't even know there names, and have never spoken a word with them.

I have a dog, a great pyranees, so a big dog. Now, because I built my fence roughly 5 or six inches off the ground so I could run the weed trimmer under it I have thier dogs over to visit. It pisses me off.


Do I have any recourse?

 

[scUM Buster]

Not a property lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and had some experience with similar issues.

I believe that your first legal step would be to have your property surveyed. Legally, if they have anything within your surveyed property boundaries, they will have to remove it (so, basically they would have to adjust their side fences off of your property line.

The more practical solution, IMO, would be to talk to them. After all, you all are now neighbors and it is no fun living next to an enemy (which is what legal routes may create). I would talk to them, and let them know what is bothering you in hopes of working out a simple solution. If they are unwilling to act rational about the whole thing, then legal away.

 

[gregorylee]

You are very right, but it pisses me off when I have to bring my dog in (he is big, but they have a pit, and I don't see the reason to chance it) because they cant control thier dog, and I refuse to modify my fence to accomodate thier fucked up sense of entitlement or whatever. Honestly I am tempted to go to TSC and get some barbed wire to run underneath it.


Oh, and why should I have to pay for a survey. Besides I think we can still find the pins.

 

[scUM Buster]

it pisses me off when I have to bring my dog in (he is big, but they have a pit, and I don't see the reason to chance it) because they cant control thier dog.

It should piss you off, and that is what you ought to talk to them about.

I refuse to modify my fence.

You don't have to if it is on your property and it doesn't violate any ordinances.

Honestly I am tempted to go to TSC and get some barbed wire to run underneath it.

Another valid option, as long is it is on your property and doesn't violate any ordinances.

Oh, and why should I have to pay for a survey. Besides I think we can still find the pins.

You'll need to be able to show where your property line is. If it has already been surveyed and tagged, then you should be good to go with the evidence. Show the guy your property line, and see if he tries to dispute it.

 

[kinch]

Honestly I am tempted to go to TSC and get some barbed wire to run underneath it.

LOL. We could have some fun thinking of things to put under that fence. . .

Anyway, you have a simple recourse: Tell them to keep their dog on a leash or else seal in the property. Then mention that they will have to do so 6 inches or whatever away from your fence. :) Make sure to say something, that is the number 1 thing (or else, after an admittedly very long time, they might be able to own that 6 inches. They don't have an easement, they can only get a license from some sort of verbal agreement (and it is freely revocable), and to possess they need years (depends on your state, 10 or 15 maybe) of open, hostile possession without you telling them to get the hell off. That is all I remember about property law. :P

It seems you don't need any legal advice though. They have crap on your property and aren't confining their dog, that is all. They are wrong. They might not have known about the property line, but the 6 inches of their fence sticking into your property probably isn't a big deal anyway, unless you move back your fence or they plant crap in your 6 inches or something. Tell 'em to fix it. Oh, and some states have rough laws towards pit bulls. . .

 

[MightbeaBuck]

...within my property lines anywhere from 6 " to a foot...

For starters, you can lose this property through a law called Adverse Possesion. If you don't mind, then do nothing. If you want to keep that 6" to a foot, then relocate your fence. Not sure what the time period is, but don't wait. It's something like seven years - give or take.

...they just butted it up to mine (built the two sides and gates at the front but are using mine as the rear boundry)...

So you are saying that about 6" to a foot of his fence is actually in your yard? Make sure the neighbor is home, then have a deputy come out to witness your removal of it. The deputy will make sure you don't break any laws, and will probably want to tell your neighbor what is about to happen. Kind of like having someone abandon a car on your property, just tow it away.

The first thing to do about the dogs is just mention it to the neighbors. That you are concerned about his dogs - for several reasons.
First, because your dog is so much bigger, he may injure or kill the neighbor dog. Second, (you can stretch the truth here) remind him that you put down some very powerful anti-insect / anti-weed / anti-mole / anti-whatever, that will kill most small animals, and make even large ones very ill. And that your application time is two to three times per week, for most of the Spring and Summer.

To "fence" off your side, without actually fencing: string heavy string / light cord between 2-liter pop bottles filled maybe half full, depending on the size of the dog, (with water) to give them some weight. These sshould be maybe two to three feet long. Set pairs of these along the fenceline.The dogs will run between them and get snagged, then return home with cord wrapped around one or more of its legs, dragging 2-liter bottles with it. The neighbor won't like it, but it doesn't injure the animal. After several times of having to unwrap the dog, the neighbor will find his own way of keeping the dogs in his yard.

The main thing to do though, is talk to your neighbor, you know, be neighborly.

 

[gregorylee]

One thing I didn't mention in the first post, is that my fince used to be WAY on their property (before it was thiers). When I first built the fence it was about 12 ft outside my boundry on one end (picture a door swung open, correct on one end but way off on the other). When they started developing, and marked off the lots I moved my fence (hence why I am so sure that I am in the right, the pins were still sticking out of the ground then). If you check the auditors site, and look at the arial photos it will show my fence before I moved it (photos are from 2000).
I did almost call animal control today on the dog, so I suppose I may be over-reacting a little, but between them and thier neighbor who loves to hang bird feeders and planters off my fence and has never asked or talked to me either I am starting to get a little irate.

I suppose in all I should just walk over one evening offer the olive branch (sixer) and talk to the guy before I continue to stew over this. I am just a bit upset that I would have to, it is fucking common courtesy to ask about using someone elses fence.


BTW, I live in Columbus.

 

[gbearbuck]

glee,

You need to have your property surveyed. After that you need to let the folks behind you know that part of the land behind the fense is yours... as stated by another poster, if you say nothing and time goes by that land will actually become theirs!!! (That class was a while ago... I want to say you get a 15 year grace period to tell the owner... and every owner that buys the property from the previous owner).

Let the guy know, and I'd suggest you put the "notice" in writting, date it and give it to him (and save a copy for yourself... if he will sign it even better).

This sort of stuff happens all the time, it's not a big deal.

I wouldn't do anything to his fense unless you talk to him about it and he turns out to be a prick (which I doubt he will be... most people are generally nice folks)... if you destroy his fense without talking to him, you will have a pissed off neighbor for a long time...

 

[MightbeaBuck]

...their neighbor who loves to hang bird feeders and planters off my fence and has never asked or talked to me either...

More abandoned vehicles...

I suppose in all I should just walk over one evening offer the olive branch (sixer)

And if he's a teatotaler?

and talk to the guy before I continue to stew over this. I am just a bit upset that I would have to, it is fucking common courtesy to ask about using someone elses fence.

Hey, you're handling nicer than I would be.

BTW, I live in Columbus.

Doesn't matter, the county would, in most cases, be the ones to handle property disputes, at least in most areas. They also look at things differently than a City cop. Unless you have a favorite Columbus cop, or a buddy on the force, I'd try to go with a sheriff's deputy.
F.W.I.W. there isn't any place in the United States where it legal for a dog that isn't yours to crap in your yard. If he dumps in your yard, without your permission, and you can prove it, the owner is prosecutable.
First though, TALK

 

[gregorylee]

glee,

You need to have your property surveyed. After that you need to let the folks behind you know that part of the land behind the fense is yours... as stated by another poster, if you say nothing and time goes by that land will actually become theirs!!! (That class was a while ago... I want to say you get a 15 year grace period to tell the owner... and every owner that buys the property from the previous owner).

There again bear, I don't see why I should have to spend money for someone to come out and survey the property, that just isn't right.

Let the guy know, and I'd suggest you put the "notice" in writting, date it and give it to him (and save a copy for yourself... if he will sign it even better).

Would a registered letter do, that I don't mind paying for

This sort of stuff happens all the time, it's not a big deal.

I wouldn't do anything to his fense unless you talk to him about it and he turns out to be a prick (which I doubt he will be... most people are generally nice folks)... if you destroy his fense without talking to him, you will have a pissed off neighbor for a long time...

I wouldn't damage his fence. I am not that malicious. If worse came to worse, I would cordon off a section of the yard then remove a couple sections of fence and let his dogs out. But that is only if he wants to be a prick about it.

Originally Posted by gregorylee
...their neighbor who loves to hang bird feeders and planters off my fence and has never asked or talked to me either...

More abandoned vehicles...

I don't understand this reference...

I suppose in all I should just walk over one evening offer the olive branch (sixer)

And if he's a teatotaler?

I don't care what he is, he is only getting the other three...

and talk to the guy before I continue to stew over this. I am just a bit upset that I would have to, it is fucking common courtesy to ask about using someone elses fence.

Hey, you're handling nicer than I would be.

Hey, I am a nice guy!

BTW, I live in Columbus.

Doesn't matter, the county would, in most cases, be the ones to handle property disputes, at least in most areas. They also look at things differently than a City cop. Unless you have a favorite Columbus cop, or a buddy on the force, I'd try to go with a sheriff's deputy.
F.W.I.W. there isn't any place in the United States where it legal for a dog that isn't yours to crap in your yard. If he dumps in your yard, without your permission, and you can prove it, the owner is prosecutable.
First though, TALK

Point was that Kinch didn't know what state I was in so I was clarifying.

The crap isn't the issue, the issue is that his dog shouldn't be in my yard regardless.

 

[BuckBackHome]

Don't start with the survey. If there truly were pins you should be able to find them as they are in the ground. If they were just on the ground they were probably stakes and those are usually temporary. You might even have a sketch of your property, depending on what your lender required as part of the property purchase. Check your appraisal to see if there is anything in there.

After you find that, or even if you find nothing, go talk to the neighbor. I'm not sure how it is handled in Columbus, but around here our cops will tell the neighbors to work it themselves at it is a civil matter.

If the neighbor refuses you can go ahead and get the survey done. Get a qualified surveyor to do the job. I have seen surveys conflict with each other so it is important to get someone who knows what he is doing. It might be worth checking into whatever survey company did your original development as they might be able to do it faster, more accurately and cheaper.

You may always want to have someone with you when you talk with the neighbor. A witness is always nice. I've never seen anyone take this all the way to court, but I live in a smaller community. Usually once they get talking the neighbors figure it out themselves. I'm sure he does not want citations for violating leash laws and I bet you don't want to cut down his fence because it is on your property.

 

[scUM Buster]

There again bear, I don't see why I should have to spend money for someone to come out and survey the property, that just isn't right.

Here's the deal with this. You want action taken, not the neighbor. He may think that his fence is completely on his property, not yours. If somebody does something wrong, the burden of proof is not on him (innocent until proven guilty related). If you are accusing him of being on your property, then you have to show that he is, indeed, on your property. What if he accused your back fence as being on his property? No, check that....when you said earlier that your fence used to be 12 feet outside of your property line, how did they let you know this information? They probably surveyed their property to show you that your fence was on their land.

 

[gregorylee]

As I stated, it is a new developement (theirs not mine) and while they were going through with the excavating equipment (for the roads, not the houses) they let me know. When I moved the fence, there were no houses, no neighbors, nothing but a road. What I am getting at with that statement is that the developer had to survey out all the lots and roads and other stuff anyway, they didn't do it just to show me that I was off my property.

Why would I spend hundreds of dollars to show him he is wrong, at least the burden of reimbusment should be on him once he is shown wrong. I am not a lawyer though and maybe I am equating too much common sense into this.


edit; to add a little clarification.

 

[NOTREDAMECHIEF]

gregorylee- Do the neighbors with the dog know that the dog is getting into your yard?

 

[gregorylee]

yep, they have had to come over and get it each time.