2008 tOSU WR discussion (official thread)

[Sportsbuck28]

In all seriousness, whatever you guys want to discuss is fair game...in fact, if you have requests for additional blogs like the 3-3-5 blog I did, let me know. If I don't know it well enough, I know people who do and can get that info out.

I liked the 3-3-5 blog... any chance you could put together one another defense? Perhaps the 4-2-5 or even the 3-4?

 

[osugrad21]

I liked the 3-3-5 blog... any chance you could put together one another defense? Perhaps the 4-2-5 or even the 3-4?

Would love to...we'll get to it after the season more than likely.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

The lack of separation thing is bull...

That has become a catchphrase amongst the internet posters.

What exactly is separation in a zone? When do we see separation?

Zone reads are based on choices...what does the read defender do and where do I need to put this ball?

WRs were open...they did not make plays. People want to see "WIDE OPEN" but it does not exist unless there is blown coverage...usually, "open" means a step or two...

I agree with everything you say with one caveat. Some teams seem to be the recipient of blown coverages so much more than others. It never seems like the Buckeyes get it. But then I watch a UF or an Oklahoma and it just happens several times. I can't just say that's all luck when they seem to consistently be the recipient of blown coverages. There has to be something these teams are doing that the Buckeyes aren't, and of that I'm jealous.

 

[RB07OSU]

I agree with everything you say with one caveat. Some teams seem to be the recipient of blown coverages so much more than others. It never seems like the Buckeyes get it. But then I watch a UF or an Oklahoma and it just happens several times. I can't just say that's all luck when they seem to consistently be the recipient of blown coverages. There has to be something these teams are doing that the Buckeyes aren't, and of that I'm jealous.

Another good point. It's only been two games and I still see this group turning it around, but as you said, I am seeing Florida, USC, Oklahoma, etc. getting open. Beyond that, the teams those guys have played are likely much better teams than YSU and Ohio. Cincy is supposed to have a good secondary and OU ripped them apart.

As for the cover 2...that was the one we ran. We would press the WR inside to the LB's or safeties and take the underneath routes area. I don't know, it just seems to me I remember RoBo and Hartline being a lot more open last year as opposed to this year, where defenders are all over them. I especially remember Holmes, Ginn, Gonzo, etc. being more open as well.

 

[osugrad21]

I agree with everything you say with one caveat. Some teams seem to be the recipient of blown coverages so much more than others. It never seems like the Buckeyes get it. But then I watch a UF or an Oklahoma and it just happens several times. I can't just say that's all luck when they seem to consistently be the recipient of blown coverages. There has to be something these teams are doing that the Buckeyes aren't, and of that I'm jealous.

You will see it once the route combos start picking up in variation.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

The lack of separation thing is bull...

That has become a catchphrase amongst the internet posters.

What exactly is separation in a zone? When do we see separation?

Zone reads are based on choices...what does the read defender do and where do I need to put this ball?

WRs were open...they did not make plays. People want to see "WIDE OPEN" but it does not exist unless there is blown coverage...usually, "open" means a step or two...

What jukes? A post pattern usually consists on 5-7 hard strides (depending whether you are counting steps or yards) and a hard break to the post.

All routes usually include a hard sell of the stem and a sharp cut to the route.

Where is this juking and losing defenders?

In a 3 step drop, there aren't many options...it is based on timing...the 5-7 step drops equal longer routes and again, timing.

There are man routes and zone routes..."Check with me" is all too common now. WRs better read the defense as well as the QB

Yes. Yes. Yes. Snowball.

Prime example...the fade to Small in the endzone was the correct read but the route was off. Therefore, it looks like great coverage and a poorly thrown ball.

How much man are we discussing when you just said how much zone you saw?

Here is something for the casual fan...most zones are a man coverage. If there is a threat in your zone, you matchup tight and count on the safety coming in as the KO.

In all seriousness, whatever you guys want to discuss is fair game...in fact, if you have requests for additional blogs like the 3-3-5 blog I did, let me know. If I don't know it well enough, I know people who do and can get that info out.

There are variations of 2...squat/hard/press 2 brings a DB holding outside leverage right up on the line. He will attack and ride while funneling inside. He "hangs" until he sees another threat cross his face (TE, back, QB). It is a tough defense against a basic pro set or double TE set.

The 2 you are describing should never allow a fade...the outside should be cutoff immediately.

all very solid points, id also like to point out i just didnt see the effort. these guys didnt put it out there. whatever the reason i dont know. the routes were slow, lumbering and lacked crispness. robo has always run good routes, i didnt see that. this isnt the lsu game were we saw lsu play some man with one over the top of robo and say ok youre doubled, now somebody else beat us mano e mano...

besides that i agree basically with every thing you said. that being said i only played quarterback one year in hs (soph) then proceeded to quit football after starting varsity. but its not exactly a hard thing, make a read (make an adjustment), get the snap, drop back, make a read, throw the ball. its not rocket science...

 

[jimotis4heisman]

You will see it once the route combos start picking up in variation.

weve seen TP with the basic of the most basic, another reason i do not expect to see tons of him at this point. also, have we seen an audible or play called at the line? for a guy who has been in the program since the french and indian war id expect he has a handle on the offense... or maybe its to not tip the hat at all to any of the checks, tendencies or reads. granted if we do see the hot indicator (usc "hang loose thingy" or troys helmet tap brent mushburger will pick up on it and give it away in the first quarter...

 

[PlanetFrnd]

weve seen TP with the basic of the most basic, another reason i do not expect to see tons of him at this point. also, have we seen an audible or play called at the line? for a guy who has been in the program since the french and indian war id expect he has a handle on the offense... or maybe its to not tip the hat at all to any of the checks, tendencies or reads. granted if we do see the hot indicator (usc "hang loose thingy" or troys helmet tap brent mushburger will pick up on it and give it away in the first quarter...

I saw some of this against OU (one for sure)... I'd have to think to remember the specifics of the play, but I will likely rewatch the game tonight, so I'll check back in.

 

[buckeyes_rock]

[quote='BusNative;125408;0]I saw some of this against OU (one for sure)... I'd have to think to remember the specifics of the play, but I will likely rewatch the game tonight, so I'll check back in.[/quote]

When TB threw the jump ball for Robo on a 3rd and 4...think it was 3rd or 4th quarter. He saw one on one with Robo and threw it up. Not a good pass and Robo didn't really appear to have his man beat anyway.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

so one, in two games.... point made (at least in my book)

 

[jwinslow]

so one, in two games.... point made (at least in my book)

and you'd be wrong... I can think of shooting at least a half dozen plays of Todd audibling during the first few games. Way too many to label as 'one in two games'

considering the obvious simplicity of their attack, including RBs (when they obviously liked Boom best, as seen by the depth chart), it would not surprise me to see fewer audibles. If SC leaves the middle WIDE OPEN on 4th and 1 like Ohio did, he's audibling to a sneak, not sticking with a statement play with OSU's least physical RB.

 

[buckeyes_rock]

and you'd be wrong... I can think of shooting at least a half dozen plays of Todd audibling, if not more.

Roger that. The example I cited above was just the one that stuck out in my mind from last game.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

and you'd be wrong... I can think of shooting at least a half dozen plays of Todd audibling during the first few games. Way too many to label as 'one in two games'

considering the obvious simplicity of their attack, including RBs (when they obviously liked Boom best, as seen by the depth chart), it would not surprise me to see fewer audibles. If SC leaves the middle WIDE OPEN on 4th and 1 like Ohio did, he's audibling to a sneak, not sticking with a statement play with OSU's least physical RB.

so six, lets say 9 to round up. 4.5 per game....

 

[buckeyesin07]

When TB threw the jump ball for Robo on a 3rd and 4...think it was 3rd or 4th quarter. He saw one on one with Robo and threw it up. Not a good pass and Robo didn't really appear to have his man beat anyway.

This one was at a particularly inopportune time, IMO. 3rd and 4, 4th quarter when OSU was up 19-14. Could have really used a first down to get a field goal and go up 8. Given Robo's position, the pass should have been thrown long and to the outside. It was thrown short and inside, and Robo never had a chance to do anything except knock it down and keep it from turning into an INT.

 

[Born Buckeye]

What jukes? A post pattern usually consists on 5-7 hard strides (depending whether you are counting steps or yards) and a hard break to the post.

All routes usually include a hard sell of the stem and a sharp cut to the route.

Where is this juking and losing defenders?

In a 3 step drop, there aren't many options...it is based on timing...the 5-7 step drops equal longer routes and again, timing.

There are man routes and zone routes..."Check with me" is all too common now. WRs better read the defense as well as the QB

I agree the post is not the pattern for jukes, that is more of a flat out speed pattern that needs to be done by someone with serious wheels. The jukes are more off the line moves that can shake someone loose from the onset of a play to avoid contact. The point is - great, even good receivers find a way to get open, even wide open from time to time in zone or man coverage. Our guys (and coaches) need to figure out a way to get that done this week for sure.