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2005 Winter Conditioning (official thread)

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Vikes said:
"Ive admitted several times he had a great game against michigan. My point is his happy feet killed alot of drives in the 3 games prior and I never yelled at the TV screen when we played michigan."

Our defense bailed us out of that penn state game and pittman had a great game against indiana as well as ginn. Ginn owned michigan state as well and I will give credit to Smith for looking off the safety and hitting Ginn on the slant in the MSU game. Other then that I was EXTREMELY fustrated with him in the first three games he started.
>>>WHAT????

How many pass plays were even called in the Indiana, MSU, PSU, games? It seemed play calling had alot to do with Smith's passing. Tressel was VERY VERY VERY conservative with Smith in regards to passing. I vividly remember posts saying LET SMITH THROW THE BALL. We saw play calling open up in the Purdue and Michigan games. PSU game Tressel shut down the offense as soon as OSU jumped into a lead.

Happy feet is a label on many mobile QBs. It was definitely a knock on Stan Jackson, where it was justified but on Smith? NO WAY.

If Smith is allowed to do what he is capable of....he's probably more like McNabb or McNair and less like VY or VICK.
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5, 3 and outs in a row against purdue. Now I argue my father all the time that Smith is a good player because he doesnt trust him and I think hes a good QB, but you dont win championships with QBs that like to run the ball unless that is the design of your offense. People on this board are ridiculously hard on Zwick. Zwick didn't get to play with what Smith got to play with in the last half of the season except for once. Then when he goes and has a very good game I read on here "oh but he missed a couple reads" and its like my gawd what QB in football period doesnt miss a couple reads during a game? I can go back and find miss reads in the MICHIGAN GAME by Smith, but that would just be nitpickin'. Point is, Im not excited after just one game.
 
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BucksinFL said:
5, 3 and outs in a row against purdue. Now I argue my father all the time that Smith is a good player because he doesnt trust him and I think hes a good QB, but you dont win championships with QBs that like to run the ball unless that is the design of your offense. People on this board are ridiculously hard on Zwick. Zwick didn't get to play with what Smith got to play with in the last half of the season except for once. Then when he goes and has a very good game I read on here "oh but he missed a couple reads" and its like my gawd what QB in football period doesnt miss a couple reads during a game? I can go back and find miss reads in the MICHIGAN GAME by Smith, but that would just be nitpickin'. Point is, Im not excited after just one game.
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What????
What is your point about 3 and outs??
If memory serves me right OSU was breaking records pre-Indiana with 3 and outs, OSU couldn't buy a first down. The offense was called anemic by commentators.

Your dad needs to see the Mich game. What's not to trust? He played a near perfect game.

Zwick hasn't played a near perfect game even with Smith's great supporting cast in the OK state game. SO the jury is still out on him.

I can find underthrown balls, misnaps, holding on the ball to long, just a lack of confidence from Zwick in many games. He needs to step alot more than Smith and show us a perfect game.

Think of it this way. Instead of comparing Smith to Zwick. Compare Zwick to USC's Leinhart. The prototypical dropback QB. If Zwick can even come close to looking like him....he's the starter. Personally I'm in favor of giving Zwick and Smith a half and seeing what they could do.
 
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Vikes said:
What????
What is your point about 3 and outs??
If memory serves me right OSU was breaking records pre-Indiana with 3 and outs, OSU couldn't buy a first down. The offense was called anemic by commentators.

Your dad needs to see the Mich game. What's not to trust? He played a near perfect game.

Zwick hasn't played a near perfect game even with Smith's great supporting cast in the OK state game. SO the jury is still out on him.

I can find underthrown balls, misnaps, holding on the ball to long, just a lack of confidence from Zwick in many games. He needs to step alot more than Smith and show us a perfect game.

Think of it this way. Instead of comparing Smith to Zwick. Compare Zwick to USC's Leinhart. The prototypical dropback QB. If Zwick can even come close to looking like him....he's the starter. Personally I'm in favor of giving Zwick and Smith a half and seeing what they could do.
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Whats not to trust? It was ONE GAME. Zwick played the okie state game better than CK has basically EVER played in a game. Zwick is not nearly as athletic as Smith, but you win championships with pocket QBs. The Oline was an absolute Joke for Zwick(like it was for bellisari for 2 and a half of his years starting). I think Smith is better than Vince Young, but IMO that isnt saying much. I want the QB that can read the defenses the best, thats who I want. If that is Smith, then so be it but tell him not to ditch and run so damn much because other than the michgan game it was NOT very effective.
 
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you guys do realize that tressel shut down the offense in the 4th quarter

all we ran were dive plays....i think smith only threw like 2 balls....im not sure if he gained more than 10 yards in the 4th....so 386 yards in 3 quarters against michigan is not bad.
 
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BucksinFL said:
Zwick is not nearly as athletic as Smith, but you win championships with pocket QBs.
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Sorry BucksinFL, but I just don't follow the logic. Smith had better completion %, TD/INT ratio, and passer rating than Zwick. Then there's the added dimension of mobility. Then there's the added-added dimension of off-the-field leadership. How does all of this get ignored in the NC hunt because Zwick sits in the pocket longer?

You admitted that Smith is the better athlete. The stats show that he was the better passer. I don't get it.

As far as winter workouts go, what is the team doing right now? Are they having any kind of organized workouts or practices. When does spring practice start, and are there going to be pictures released to the public? Man, I need my fix.
 
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The one point that some would make (and have made on this board) is that Smith's superior passing statistics may have had something to do with overall team improvement during the course of the season. Ginn came on late, the O-line seemed to play better late; these may have had something to do with improved quarterback play. If Zwick had played all the way through, would his stats have improved as the season progressed? Obviously, no one knows, but some feel that that is a signficant factor. Along those lines, I would suggest that there were times early in the season where Zwick looked pretty good. I'm not saying that Zwick is the better QB, but I am saying that a straight up statistical comparison might not be completely fair or accurate.
 
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Another thing to take into consideration is smith's leadership ability. A reason the O started clicking is because the line and such had confidence in him, and that caused them to gel. A quarterback is more than just goin out and throwin the ball around, you have to have the confidence from your teammates, and coaches. Leadership is somethin that Zwick seemed to lack IMO.
 
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Yertle said:
As far as winter workouts go, what is the team doing right now? Are they having any kind of organized workouts or practices. When does spring practice start, and are there going to be pictures released to the public? Man, I need my fix.
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Full practices start this week. Winter conditioning is over. Jim Davidson often gets some good pics from practices over on Ozone.net.
 
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zincfinger said:
The one point that some would make (and have made on this board) is that Smith's superior passing statistics may have had something to do with overall team improvement during the course of the season. Ginn came on late, the O-line seemed to play better late; these may have had something to do with improved quarterback play. If Zwick had played all the way through, would his stats have improved as the season progressed? Obviously, no one knows, but some feel that that is a signficant factor. Along those lines, I would suggest that there were times early in the season where Zwick looked pretty good. I'm not saying that Zwick is the better QB, but I am saying that a straight up statistical comparison might not be completely fair or accurate.
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Going around in circles with this thread.

Both can probably win games. Both have shown improvment. Both have shown some leadership. Zwick needs to step up a little bit more in terms of being injury free, better throwing mechanics, and showing more confidence in games. Ok St was a good game but not convincing that he's the clear #1 QB. If Smith can repeat the Michigan performance I cannot see how you keep him on the bench. Both are gamers.

As part of stating what's fair and unfair .....One can also point out it, it was unfair keeping Smith on the bench for such a long time. Even with all the emphasis on the new evolved supporting cast, OSU had to start somewhere after the 3 loss skid. I don't know why it took 3 losses or a Zwick injury for him to get significant playing time. It was known from the beginning OSU's OL was suspect .....why would you start a drop back QB whose confidence continued to decrease after each loss? A mobile athletic throwing Qb would at least compensate for a lack of a OL and running game. To this day I don't understand that. I think that was unfair to the team. It was unfair to the fans who had to watch it. I had postraumatic Belli flashbacks during that period. No improvement and an imminent feeling the ship was going to sink.

Water under the bridge. The team as whole has improved. Playcalling has improved. Each brings something to the table. Zwick is good pocket passer. Can pick apart a defense. Smith is a good mobile/throwing Qb. Gives defenses fits because you really don't know what he's going to do. Tressel is a lucky man. If he can find away to put both on the field = NC.
 
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Vikes said:
It was unfair to the fans who had to watch it.
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First, who has to watch anything? (I know, I know.. cheap shot. Sorry! I withdraw this comment.)
Second - unfair to the fans? Since when should a coach think "which choice should I make that would be most fair to the fans?" I think that the coach should never consider the fans when making his decisions.

But overall, I agree. A drop-back quarterback can be effective without a good O-line, but it's very difficult. He needs the receivers to get open early and to make catches nearly 100% of the time. On top of that, he needs to read the defenses instantly, because he basically has no time. There may be quarterbacks who can do all of that, but not many can.

But at the time, I was not confident with Smith. I was afraid Smith would fade back and then scramble every time he got the chance. I thought Zwick was the best (and sometimes only) option for the Bucks, until he got hurt.

I know now that Smith is better than I had expected, and I think both can win games for the Bucks. (Also, both can lose games for the Bucks.)
 
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