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2005 Formation debate

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jwinslow

jwinslow

A MAN OF BETRAYED JUSTICE
Staff member
Tourney Pick'em Champ
We all know that JT loves the I-formation, but I really feel like we're still one year away from making that our #1 formation.

2005 - Shot-Ginn - We have too much speed and ability from our 3 WRs and backfield to not utilize this formation a lot. The playbook options are endless from this formation (sweeps, option, option pass, option reverse, option reverse passes with ginn, etc). Plus it was the formation we had the most success with. Perhaps we can prove that our OL is ready to run a power-I. But for the Texas game, I really think the Shot-Ginn will be our #1 formation.

2006 - Power-I - The future of the OL, despite losing a few seniors after 05, is very bright. Combine that with more experience for Nicol at TE, more experience and weightroom time for Haw/Pittman/Wells, and some guy named Chris Wells and I think we'll see what Tresselball is all about. I also believe we'll see Holmes go pro and our offensive mindset will change as Lyons steps up to be the SE Out of the power-I we actually could be better on offense since Lyons should be a better blocker size-wise and more able to dominate with his 6'4" frame.
 
We have such a diverse amount of talent, we don't have to settle on any one formation as our main "go-to".

We have speed out the wazzoo with Ginn, Holmes, Gonzalez and crew but we certainly aren't slouches in the size department with Hall, Hamby, Haw, and Johnson. We can go big when we need to and go 5 wide if we choose to. And everyone has good hands. We can through out of a jumbo package if we want to.

That's one reason why I'm so pumped about this season. It may be the first time in three years that I can't predict the play by the formation 80% of the time like have been. This a very versatile team with limitless possiblities.
 
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I would love to see the Bucks be able to do something out of the I-formation, but I hope they don't use that as a "main" formation. I hope they don't go to any "main" formation.

It seems like they've tried to run out of the I-formation for years, but haven't been able to. The red zone offense has been terrible at times. Wouldn't it be great to see the Bucks inside the 5 using 2 TE's, 1 TB, 1 FB, and 1 WR, and everyone in the stadium (including the defense) knows its going to be a run up the middle, and the Bucks score every time?

But with the way football is evolving, defenses are too big and too fast to just run the ball down their throats all game long. You need 3 and 4 wide receivers out there much of the time.
 
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Shot-Ginn is the most dangerous formation that JT can put on the field and I don't see that changing until there is no more Ginn. I would look for Ginn to be in the tight slot (no jokes) in several formations. I just hope JT uses the fast receivers that he has to run some fake reverses this year.
 
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hopefully, we will use whatever formation gives us mis-matches with the defense - for right now, that's going to be mostly spread formations like the shot-Ginn or 4-wides.

I agree w/ BFS, that in '06 the OL should be dominant, and we will see more of the ISO plays and power formations - but that will only make the spread formations even more effective when used.

The nice thing is that we can dictate to the defense and be unpredictable, which was missing before under Coach T.
 
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I really don't see the novelty in the "Shot-Ginn" formation. To me, keeping Ginn tucked in closer to the backfield negates his speed. It seems like all of his big non-punt offensive plays came when he was either lined up, or in motion, away from the formation:

1. Tipped catch-and-run TD against Indiana
2. Slant TD pass at MSU.
3. 42 yard catch in The Game during our second TD drive.
4. 26 yard catch on 3rd and 15 leading to half-ending FG in The Game
5. Reverse-direction catch-and-run for 42 yards in the Alamo Bowl.

I don't recall any big plays from him with the snap occuring with him motionless in the Shot-Ginn.
 
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The Shot-Ginn has the QB in shotgun formation behind the center, the TB a few yards to the right of him, and Ted Ginn lined up a few yards to the right of the TB. Ginn is basically lined up wider than the TE, but is at RB depth.
 
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I am with Milli on this.

I have always thought that the formation was more of an effort to help Ginn get off the line because he was having troubles with jams early. He's not the biggest/strongest guy but he's very fast and there's no way a corner can take the chance at a jam when he has a couple of steps to get up to speed.

I don't remember a lot of quick shuttle passes to him or anything along those lines that make the formation particularly novel. Just some great reverses that I believe that he could make magic no matter where here starts the play lined up.

I don't get the hype on the shot Ginn. I do, however, get the hype about Ginn. I don't think it matters where he lines up once he masters shedding the jam at the line.
 
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What makes the Shot-Ginn potentially very effective is that Ginn used to play some QB, and apparently pretty well. JT was going to let him throw in the Alamo Bowl (the play was actually called), but circumstances changed and he didn't have a chance to do it.

I admit that I don't like to see it overdone, but it is exciting when we line up in the formation. I suspect we'll see it some more of it this year, maybe a little less often if our offense gets things rolling like I expect them to.

C'mon September...
 
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ginn can throw as good as michael wiley could and what did he attempt a half dozen passes or so.


the shot ginn reminds me of how ND used rocket ismail and how USC uses reggie bush. get your best player in multiple positions to make the defense consntantly adjust and account. mistakes are likely to happen that way.
 
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it makes ginn runs easier and more dificult for the d to recognize in a timely fasion. its also safer to run ginn fake reverse passes out of. ive yet to see ginn hit in stride on a deep ball. him starting farther back off the line not only keeps him out of jam problems. but it also will likely help with qb wr timing. ginn's 40 looks alot like the rest of the guys when he runs a 45... it also creates matchup nightmares with a modified bunch formation. you can have a se, a te, a tb, and or ginn to that side.
 
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