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- Thread starter BIATCHabutuka
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BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
a long time ago i was in a sales meeting with a big national retailer whose business i wanted badly.
they were concened about my use of phthalates (all competitors used them too; i subsequently rewrote the formula to remove them). the guy was being very irrational and not responding to science or logic. fortunately i deal with idiot environmentalists all the time who only can play on the fears and not the science. you can spot these guys from a mile away by their inability to pronounce the chemicals they are worried about.
the gambler in me rose to the occasion.
i asked him if he had a $20 on him.
he said he did.
i told him to put it on the conference room table.
he did.
i told him i have about 100,000 pounds of phthalates on hand. I told him we would go out to the shop together and pour a glass of them and that I would drink that glass of phthalates in exchange for his $20 and that if they were so bad, how come the only guy in the room who actually knows what he is talking about is willing to drink them in exchange for a measly $20.
I told him i would have the runs for a couple of days, but to have any health impact I would need to drink roughly 30,000 times my body weight. i asked him if he thought i was stupid enough to make that bet for such low stakes. he dropped his line of questioning (thank god) and we landed several million dollars of his business.
if the stakes are right, i will put my plastic where my mouth is, as long as it isn't shaped like a dildo or buttplug that is. if you aren't willing to do that, you shouldn't be doing this.
if anyone has any specific fears, bring them up and we can discuss them rationally if you like.
they were concened about my use of phthalates (all competitors used them too; i subsequently rewrote the formula to remove them). the guy was being very irrational and not responding to science or logic. fortunately i deal with idiot environmentalists all the time who only can play on the fears and not the science. you can spot these guys from a mile away by their inability to pronounce the chemicals they are worried about.
the gambler in me rose to the occasion.
i asked him if he had a $20 on him.
he said he did.
i told him to put it on the conference room table.
he did.
i told him i have about 100,000 pounds of phthalates on hand. I told him we would go out to the shop together and pour a glass of them and that I would drink that glass of phthalates in exchange for his $20 and that if they were so bad, how come the only guy in the room who actually knows what he is talking about is willing to drink them in exchange for a measly $20.
I told him i would have the runs for a couple of days, but to have any health impact I would need to drink roughly 30,000 times my body weight. i asked him if he thought i was stupid enough to make that bet for such low stakes. he dropped his line of questioning (thank god) and we landed several million dollars of his business.
if the stakes are right, i will put my plastic where my mouth is, as long as it isn't shaped like a dildo or buttplug that is. if you aren't willing to do that, you shouldn't be doing this.
if anyone has any specific fears, bring them up and we can discuss them rationally if you like.
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ScriptOhio
Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.
Thump;2313269; said:
They banned plastic bags in Seattle and shoplifting has increased.
Plastic Bag Ban Leads to Increased Theft
entire article: http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=22917
http://minutemennews.com/2013/03/shoplifters-in-seattle-thefts-rise-after-plastic-bag-ban/
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BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
gotta love unintended consequences.
the government has proven time and again it is by far the least intelligent actor out there. when they combine forces with uninformed do gooders, it gets ugly fast doesn't it.
good links, thanks man.
who doesn't use those bags as mini trash can trashbags anyway. those bags serve many a purpose. wouldn't that thin wall bag be actually saving material as opposed to using the thicker walled normal trashbag?
if you get rid of plastic bags, what are poor strippers supposed to use for luggage, huh? clear heels and body glitter don't carry themselves.
FYI, i plan on mining all the trash pits for plastic scrap in about another 30 years when it becomes economical so don't worry about it laying in your landfill. at some point in time, it will be economical for me to pay people to go get that material so i can remelt it. right now natty gas is so cheap it doesn't make any sense financially now.
FYI2 we make plastics mainly from gas not oil on this continent, we leave the oil cracking to the inefficient EU mainly. propylene monomer is best derived from oil, but the Brazilians are taking it from sugar cane scraps and once they add scale that will be the way to get propylene.
the government has proven time and again it is by far the least intelligent actor out there. when they combine forces with uninformed do gooders, it gets ugly fast doesn't it.
good links, thanks man.
who doesn't use those bags as mini trash can trashbags anyway. those bags serve many a purpose. wouldn't that thin wall bag be actually saving material as opposed to using the thicker walled normal trashbag?
if you get rid of plastic bags, what are poor strippers supposed to use for luggage, huh? clear heels and body glitter don't carry themselves.
FYI, i plan on mining all the trash pits for plastic scrap in about another 30 years when it becomes economical so don't worry about it laying in your landfill. at some point in time, it will be economical for me to pay people to go get that material so i can remelt it. right now natty gas is so cheap it doesn't make any sense financially now.
FYI2 we make plastics mainly from gas not oil on this continent, we leave the oil cracking to the inefficient EU mainly. propylene monomer is best derived from oil, but the Brazilians are taking it from sugar cane scraps and once they add scale that will be the way to get propylene.
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Bisphenol A?
Discuss.
Also, why does my local recycler say "No plastic shopping bags"?
They just recently gave us this note about plastic shopping bags.
Discuss.
Also, why does my local recycler say "No plastic shopping bags"?
They just recently gave us this note about plastic shopping bags.
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Thump;2313269; said:
I know there are some cities in the U.S. that charge extra for the use of plastic bags
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BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
Bisphenol A is bad from what I know. It is basically just a polycarbonate issue. I don't deal with polycarb much, probably bought less than 250,000 pounds ever, so that is out of my area somewhat. My expertise is in tailoring plastic formulas and PC doesn't get compounded much at all. No need to pay a formulator there really. If they don't need my services, I don't pay much attention to their material honestly.
That being said, BPA exposure is most common from thermal ink receipts and not plastic at all. That is where the actual exposure to consumers occurs and where the [Mark May] should rain down on, not the PC industry (though their workers could be exposed).
still though Polycarbonate is made from BPA as a feedstock. The workers that produce PC certainly have a good reason to be concerned about BPA.
The end users of polycarbonate do not need to worry about it though as it as it is used up in creating the PC.
I still wouldn't want to be exposed to it and the industry has shifted away from using it in can liners and water / baby bottles. Marketing pressures can outweigh science and there wasn't much of a cost penalty in shifting away from PC so the industry had little issue. the alternate materials don't perform as well, but that is what we like to call engineering obsolescence, which just increases sales.
I do find it funny that people get their panties in a bunch about BPA, when PC is also made from phosgene.
Last people I am aware of to use phosgene succesfully were the Nazi's and they killed Americans with it chemical warfare style. Much like BPA though, the phosgene is converted in the PC production so there is no real exposure to consumers, but the workers at the reactor definitely need to follow the safety rules. Upon further review it seems the Japanese loved using the phosgene even more than the Nazi's when they had a chance to fuck up Chinese.
a good company on high street in columbus has some good styrenic alternatives that perform nearly as well as PC, but they aren't cost competitive yet that I know. Hi to the guys at PSG down in columbus. the pc price is pretty volatile though and my info there is stale.
That being said, BPA exposure is most common from thermal ink receipts and not plastic at all. That is where the actual exposure to consumers occurs and where the [Mark May] should rain down on, not the PC industry (though their workers could be exposed).
still though Polycarbonate is made from BPA as a feedstock. The workers that produce PC certainly have a good reason to be concerned about BPA.
The end users of polycarbonate do not need to worry about it though as it as it is used up in creating the PC.
I still wouldn't want to be exposed to it and the industry has shifted away from using it in can liners and water / baby bottles. Marketing pressures can outweigh science and there wasn't much of a cost penalty in shifting away from PC so the industry had little issue. the alternate materials don't perform as well, but that is what we like to call engineering obsolescence, which just increases sales.
I do find it funny that people get their panties in a bunch about BPA, when PC is also made from phosgene.
Last people I am aware of to use phosgene succesfully were the Nazi's and they killed Americans with it chemical warfare style. Much like BPA though, the phosgene is converted in the PC production so there is no real exposure to consumers, but the workers at the reactor definitely need to follow the safety rules. Upon further review it seems the Japanese loved using the phosgene even more than the Nazi's when they had a chance to fuck up Chinese.
a good company on high street in columbus has some good styrenic alternatives that perform nearly as well as PC, but they aren't cost competitive yet that I know. Hi to the guys at PSG down in columbus. the pc price is pretty volatile though and my info there is stale.
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BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
the only reason i could think of not taking the plastic bags is the difficulty in processing the scrap.
with really low bulk density material (i.e. very thin parts when you shred them), that [Mark May] won't flow through normal processing equipment very good at all. you would need a special hopper to make sure your machine kept running called a crammer. as a guy who has spent way too many days looking to buy used crammer parts, they are hard to come buy and are largely on very old machines. I used to own 6 of them and had to hustle for every single spare part.
the crammer is basically a hopper with a screw rotating in it with a wiper arm. the rotation of the crammer ensures that the material continues to flow to the main extruder screw. you also need to have some serious feed throat cooling on the base of your extruder so the material in the crammer doesn't melt / get tacky and stick there.
the other alternative is the California pellet mill. basically they just press the low bulk density scrap together into a friable pellet. That would work too and is pretty cheap. Maybe the city could even afford their own pellet mill and create some jobs and make some money off this problem?
it sounds like whoever is processing your towns curbside is not very talented at extrusion honestly. I believe walmart takes back the shopping bags for recycling though. they must have a more capable extrusion company handling their material. if you want a recommendation, go to Bayshore in Jersey (though they got bought by Mexichem and may have had a name change). I have used them to process my overcapacity low bulk density scraps before the freight rates went up so much it wasn't economical anymore to do it outside.
there is no reason why you can't recycle a plastic bag, but low bulk density materials are definitely a processing challenge for some machine set ups.
you should hassle your community on the plastic bag issue. there is no excuse there for not taking them, they just quit too easy in that governmental unit once they heard no. it can be done, but does require specialized equipment. worst case scenario, they just need to accumulate enough to fill a container and then they could sell it for profit. there is value in that material for sure.
good question and one on extrusion which i love too, thanks.
with really low bulk density material (i.e. very thin parts when you shred them), that [Mark May] won't flow through normal processing equipment very good at all. you would need a special hopper to make sure your machine kept running called a crammer. as a guy who has spent way too many days looking to buy used crammer parts, they are hard to come buy and are largely on very old machines. I used to own 6 of them and had to hustle for every single spare part.
the crammer is basically a hopper with a screw rotating in it with a wiper arm. the rotation of the crammer ensures that the material continues to flow to the main extruder screw. you also need to have some serious feed throat cooling on the base of your extruder so the material in the crammer doesn't melt / get tacky and stick there.
the other alternative is the California pellet mill. basically they just press the low bulk density scrap together into a friable pellet. That would work too and is pretty cheap. Maybe the city could even afford their own pellet mill and create some jobs and make some money off this problem?
it sounds like whoever is processing your towns curbside is not very talented at extrusion honestly. I believe walmart takes back the shopping bags for recycling though. they must have a more capable extrusion company handling their material. if you want a recommendation, go to Bayshore in Jersey (though they got bought by Mexichem and may have had a name change). I have used them to process my overcapacity low bulk density scraps before the freight rates went up so much it wasn't economical anymore to do it outside.
there is no reason why you can't recycle a plastic bag, but low bulk density materials are definitely a processing challenge for some machine set ups.
you should hassle your community on the plastic bag issue. there is no excuse there for not taking them, they just quit too easy in that governmental unit once they heard no. it can be done, but does require specialized equipment. worst case scenario, they just need to accumulate enough to fill a container and then they could sell it for profit. there is value in that material for sure.
good question and one on extrusion which i love too, thanks.
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BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
sadly, i have both seen and smelled them being recycled. you will be amazed at what someone is willing to do to save their business. it didn't work for that guy either and probably cost him more than a couple of employees. it was just an experiment for Ray, but one that ended poorly. to his credit, he punted pretty quickly there.
talk about a [Mark May]ty job.
i don't have kids so i probably shouldn't comment on them honestly, but i doubt they get recycled much honestly.
probably not a great use for plastic. I would give you that for sure.
bio plastic is just marketing mumbo jumbo, it is the same plastic just derived from different hydrocarbons.
if it were made biodegradeable, then i see no issue other than the total waste of the hydrocarbons.
good / [Mark May]ty question.
i would support a city wide diaper service just like ordinary trash. put a tax on baby products to pay for it so those who benefit from it incur the expense. note i hate taxes so that pains me to admit it.
talk about a [Mark May]ty job.
i don't have kids so i probably shouldn't comment on them honestly, but i doubt they get recycled much honestly.
probably not a great use for plastic. I would give you that for sure.
bio plastic is just marketing mumbo jumbo, it is the same plastic just derived from different hydrocarbons.
if it were made biodegradeable, then i see no issue other than the total waste of the hydrocarbons.
good / [Mark May]ty question.
i would support a city wide diaper service just like ordinary trash. put a tax on baby products to pay for it so those who benefit from it incur the expense. note i hate taxes so that pains me to admit it.
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