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WR Ted Ginn, Jr. (Official Thread)

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Here's my stance:

1) Ginn is #2, until he does what he will at KR. Once that happens, as well as the couple of trick plays he will probably run, he leapfrogs Bush for the most dangerous & versatile player period, not just KR.
2) It's not a crime to be listed top-5 since he was not "worthy" or "needed" at KR last year, a unit that didn't return any kicks for touchdowns IIRC.

I'm with you, I think he pushes Bush for the rating of the best, but I don't think they're being unfair by not having him top-3.
 
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jwinslow said:
Here's my stance:

1) Ginn is #2, until he does what he will at KR. Once that happens, as well as the couple of trick plays he will probably run, he leapfrogs Bush for the most dangerous & versatile player period, not just KR.
2) It's not a crime to be listed top-5 since he was not "worthy" or "needed" at KR last year, a unit that didn't return any kicks for touchdowns IIRC.

I'm with you, I think he pushes Bush for the rating of the best, but I don't think they're being unfair by not having him top-3.
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Then what the fuck are you arguing with me for?
 
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I'm doing real well this week... I just thought the article was pretty fair.

BKB seems to agree with Mili, but isn't ready to tar and feather the writer from what it seems.

Therefore, my fight was with mili... but with my batting avg this week I'm gonna walk away.
 
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jwins: Where was I fighting with you? I called the "writers" at CFN fucking morons, not you. They get paid by a large media company to rate and assess talent, and thus should at least have some semblance of a clue. You (and I and others here) are simply fans, and we happen to mis-evaluate someone, no biggie.

When they titled the article "Kick Returners", it was clear they intended to rank the players who were best at returning kicks (kickoffs, punts, or both). Ginn didn't return many KOs (2, 3?) because we had two proven commodities doing the job. Tressel let Hall return kicks because he did a pretty good job and because he was a senior who had been returning KOs for several years. Thus Ginn returned only punts. Still, with his gaudy 25+ yard per return average and 4 TDs in only 15 touches (that's a TD return in less than every 4 punt returns), there's no doubt in my mind he's the best "kick" (as implied by the article) returner in the country, bar none.
 
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Nah, I more meant my debate was with Mili, and BKB somehow got into the middle of it (due to the timing of my reply). I never thought it was a "fight" per se with me at all.

One interesting statistic someone should look into: against what teams did the other returners score TDs? Ginn score against Wisconsin, PSU, MSU and UM, 3 of which have plenty of talent to cover punts.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Oh, and you put Steve Breaston on that little list of yours... What the fuck has he done since his Freshman year?
69 career punt returns for 911 yards (13.2 avg.) and three TDs ... returned 37 kickoffs for 880 yards (23.8 avg.) during career
Sophmore year (2003):
set Michigan season records in punt returns (45) and yards (619) ... scored two touchdowns on punt returns against Indiana and Illinois ..

He's been nothing since his Sophmore season.

NOTHING

Stop regurgitating what you hear the talking heads say and dig a little.
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Just thinking about the scUM'ers makes me want to regurgitate. But after digging a little (very little).

"Breaston set a new Rose Bowl all-purpose yardage record with 315 yards, eclipsing O.J. Simpson's 276-yard performance against Ohio State in 1969. Breaston had 221 kickoff return yards and constantly gave the Wolverine offense good field position."

Now I realize he got those 221 kickoff return yards for 2 reasons:

1. scUM let Texas score a lot so there were a lot of kickoffs
2. Texas's kickoff coverage units sucked

And I hate the prick just like I hated Anthony Carter, Desmond Howard, and Charles Woodson. But an all-purpose yardage record in the Rose Bowl isn't exactly 'NOTHING' :biggrin:
 
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jwinslow said:
One interesting statistic someone should look into: against what teams did the other returners score TDs? Ginn score against Wisconsin, PSU, MSU and UM, 3 of which have plenty of talent to cover punts.
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Here are the punt return defense stats of the four teams against whom Ginn returned a punt for a TD:

Wisconsin: #70, 10.32 ypr, 2 TDs
PSU: #99, 12.56 ypr, 2 TDs
MSU: #114, 16.04 ypr, 3 TDs
Michigan: #103, 13.11 ypr, 1 TD

I would imaging those poor ratings would improve dramatically if Ginn's returns were removed.
 
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BB - I did my research on the issue as quick as I could, so I wonder why the GoBlo site didnt' include the 221 in his career stats... or maye they did, whcih just goes to show he had an outlier game.

My point was more that Breaston has gotten a lot of milage out of his Soph. campaign despite limited production ever since.

Jwin - maybe you should do that research? Just a thought.

MililaniBuckeye said:
Here are the punt return defense stats of the four teams against whom Ginn returned a punt for a TD:

Wisconsin: #70, 10.32 ypr, 2 TDs
PSU: #99, 12.56 ypr, 2 TDs
MSU: #114, 16.04 ypr, 3 TDs
Michigan: #103, 13.11 ypr, 1 TD

I would imaging those poor ratings would improve dramatically if Ginn's returns were removed.
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Well, maybe not that last team :biggrin:
 
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Seriously, how bad do you suck when your KR destroys the return record, your WR and QB both set records... and you still lose?!

Boy does Lloyd suck. We should send him thank you notes every week he doesn't fire Hermann.
 
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I did the adjustment for Michigan's stats. If you take away Ginn's 4 returns for 123 yards and the TD, Michigan goes from #103, 13.11 ypr, 1 TD to #80, 10.97 ypr, 0 TD...that's a jump of 23 spots, or a jump over one-fifth of the teams.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
My point was more that Breaston has gotten a lot of milage out of his Soph. campaign despite limited production ever since.
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I'd just like to point out that Breaston was injured most of last year. The Rose bowl was one of the few games he was 100% last year. Sure, we may overhype him, but he does have a valid excuse.


As for the topic, "Michigan sucks":
We should send [Carr] thank you notes every week he doesn't fire Hermann.
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