My, how the mighty have fallen...

[Steve19]

I wanted to start a discussion and see what you guys think outside of the specific coach-search threads.

Anyone else impressed by the reality shock the high and mighty (and once high and mighty) of college basketball are getting looking for coaches? Kentucky gets dissed by a number of guys. TSUN looks to be shopping well below their aspirations.

Why do top name schools appear to be having so much difficulty in general?

 

[NFBuck]

One of the big things IMO is that there just aren't many coaches who stay put for long periods of time anymore. Who aside from Coach K is left? Kentucky may not seem as attractive as it once did because of the sky high expectations they have in Lexington. With parity in CBB, and so few big time players staying more than 2 years, it's just really difficult to build a dynasty like there were prior to about 10 years ago. Unless you are a tireless recruiter (like Matta), it's just getting harder to have sustained success anymore.

 

[Kueller]

Anyone else impressed by the reality shock the high and mighty (and once high and mighty) of college basketball are getting looking for coaches? Kentucky gets dissed by a number of guys. TSUN looks to be shopping well below their aspirations.

Why do top name schools appear to be having so much difficulty in general?

TSUN reminds me a lot of myself going car shopping. I'd really like a Ferrari or Porsche, but my budget says I should stick with a Mazda or Toyota. The Michigan name, and old school boosters may feel entitled to a big name coach, but they're not offering top dollar for one, I can't blame them, I was at the tsun OSU game where they were playing for a tourney bid and the place was only 2/3 full, you don't pay outrageous amounts for a coach if you can't even fill the stadium for your biggest rival.

Kentucky is a bit more interesting as they are offering top dollar, and I think someone who is willing to work hard to earn their money could be successful there.

Finally, while the top players only stay a year or two, overall there are much better players available now thanks to AAU ball vs 10 years ago, so with good recruiting you can build a successful young team because the frosh coming in now are far more experienced than those of 10 years ago. I think talent is becoming more important relative to experience than before, so you don't necessarily have to have a great player for 4 years to win a championship, 1 or 2 might be plenty.

 

[osugrad21]

I don't believe a public word of these searches...with the fickle nature of recruiting, the internet info age, and the constant game of leverage with these coaches, the true game is behind the scenes.

When Coop and Obie were dismissed, it seemed as if every high profile coach in America was denying any interest in tOSU. However, there were good things going on that we did not hear about until the contract was being drawn up and slapped on the desk.

Don't buy the hype...or lack of hype.

 

[DaytonBuck]

I think among the BCS schools the ones with resources, info structure, and money are all about equal with the right coach. UK has the history but at this point in time for the right coach I don't think it's any better job than Ohio State. We can pay a coach as well as UK, have the facilities, and an athletic department committed to winning. Ohio State can get top level recruits with the right coach. We don't have the built in recruiting advantages of a UK but as long as you're not a second tier Big East coach this is a job that can give you all the prominence and prestige of a UK without dealing a fanatical fanbase.

 

[coastalbuck]

I'm with Grad on this one. We don't even come close to knowing what is what with these things. Believe me, Tubby to Minny was a hell of a lot more than "well, I tried here, now let me go try there." Believe me, there were some old guard blue fans suggesting strongly he go try somewhere else, very strongly. There is one quality that sets coaches apart from super coaches, recruiting!

Here's where it becomes interesting. There's no set in stone way to do it. And, the same stuff doesn't always work. If you haven't read Rick Majerus' book, find it and read it. I think the title is something like my life on a napkin. He worked with Al Maquire at Marquette for a while. Those two could sell winter gear to a homeless guy in South Beach! You could legitimately question their basketball acumen, but now sales ability. On the other hand, I've had the pleasure of listening to Coach K and Roy Williams at clinics in the past. Believe me, you cannot question either ones basketball knowledge. However, I don't think either one could sell shoes to a barefoot man. They get the players because of where they're at and what past performances have shown they can accomplish. Ok, I'm the AD. What do I look for. ? Used car salesman, or basketball blueblood. It's not as black and white as that obviously but in a nut shell that is the question.
Toss in all the behind the scenes stuff and that is what makes it interesting.

 

[Best Buckeye]

Could it be that Universities are just not finding it worthwhile anymore to throw big dollars at coaches who may up and leave at any moment , or ones that are unproven and may not lead to a good program ,ie. Tommy.

 

[ScriptOhio]

I don't believe a public word of these searches...with the fickle nature of recruiting, the internet info age, and the constant game of leverage with these coaches, the true game is behind the scenes.

When Coop and Obie were dismissed, it seemed as if every high profile coach in America was denying any interest in tOSU. However, there were good things going on that we did not hear about until the contract was being drawn up and slapped on the desk.

Don't buy the hype...or lack of hype.

Very true. Even when a coach leaves voluntarily, like Steve Alford at Iowa, you kind of wonder what the "real story" may be. Did he really leave Iowa (major conference school) for New Mexico (lesser conference school) because of New Mexico's greater commitment to basketball?

Per: But in an interview Monday on ESPN Radio, Alford cited New Mexico's greater commitment to basketball as part of the reason for his departure for a school in a seemingly less prestigious conference.

"Money wasn't going to be an issue," Alford said. "It was just more the gut feeling I had that I just needed to be in a situation where basketball was king and there was a tremendous passion for basketball. That's just the way I was brought up. That's not a slam at Iowa."

Entire article: http://www.hawkcentral.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070327/HAWKS0102/703270319/1053/HAWKS

 

[coastalbuck]

Could it be that Universities are just not finding it worthwhile anymore to throw big dollars at coaches who may up and leave at any moment , or ones that are unproven and may not lead to a good program ,ie. Tommy.

Two answers. Universities don't care about the money. It's the wins and exposure. Believe me, it's worthwhile throwing the big dollars, no one is concerned about longevity at the onset, maybe 5 or 10 years down the line, but not at first hire.


Second. Sometimes you have to try the unproven route. Sure it didn't work for scUM, but it was still a good effort IMO. Maybe they won't go that route this time, who knows. Still a nice try.

 

[NFBuck]

Second. Sometimes you have to try the unproven route. Sure it didn't work for scUM, but it was still a good effort IMO. Maybe they won't go that route this time, who knows. Still a nice try.

Very true. Amaker took over a program that was in shambles and at least made them somewhat competitive. He brought in some pretty good recruits, maybe not blue-chippers, but decent none the less. His failing was that he's just not much of a developer of talent and was a below average game coach. Goes back to how hard it is to get somebody that can recruit, or at least has assistants that can sell, and can develop that talent while also getting it done on the court. Makes you have to be really appreciative of what we got in Matta.

 

[cincibuck]

OK, how about this for logic. For decades Kentucky was the only SEC team that gave a damn about basketball. In those days only conference winners went to the 16 team NCAA field. That meant one long streak of uncontested conference appearances and NCAA slots.

In the 1950s the Barron was able to tell 'Bear' Bryant, "This town ain't big enough for both of us." After winning the only outright SEC championship the Mildcats have ever won, Bryant was given a one way ticket to Texas A&M by a grateful UK. When he re-emerged in the SEC, at Alabama, he paid Lexington back many times over.

Not to be overlooked is the history of racism at UK. Rupp stood in the spotlight, on the 'K', in the old fieldhouse and proclaimed to the student body "As long as I'm alive there'll be no blacks playing ball here."

Two years after Texas Western doubled the score on him in the NCAA finals he recanted. "Damn, let's get me some of that 'athleticism'" may have been his words.

I was at the Drawbridge Inn the Day Tubby's wildcats won the NCAA. A group of blue and white clad fans came pouring out of the bar and one of them shouts, "That damn ****** better have won that game or a bunch of us would be down there to lynch his black ass."

Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky still have racial issues, to be certain, but you just don't hear that kind of thinking/talk expressed openly by Xavier, UC, Notre Dame or OSU fans, the other schools with a fan base in this area.

The next Kentucky coach has to contend with a much tougher SEC and he must be part of helping the football program climb out of its tomb.

Tubby was accepted and respected by the other coaches and certainly by Dick Vitale. Maybe they're sending UK a message.

Still, it's a great tradition, an amazing fan base, excellent facilities. If the AD grows some hangy down things and stands between the fans and the coach it could be the best job in basketball. And wouldn't it be wild if Bobby Knight would end up there with a chance to give Bloomington a whack job once a year... that's something Bear Bryant would appreciate.

 

[Cornerback6]

The cupboard is just about bare at Kentucky, so anyone who takes that job knows they're up against it. With the expectations and lack of talent currently at UK, the man who accepts the job better have some seriously thick skin and recruiting skills.

 

[bassbuckeye07]

I think Kentucky has a case of Alabamafootballitis. When the community and wealthy Alum are far more powerful than the AD and President it creates a lynch mob atmosphere if you dont win right away. I think this puts alot of established names in coaching off. Saban through his ego made his way to Bama but it had been aparent that that job was not what it was when Rich Rodriguez and others said go f yourself.

 

[stxbuck]

IMO, coaches are beginning to realize that if you have recruiting skills, you do not need to be at a "traditional" power-UNC,UK,IU,etc. to win-if you are part of a major conference-SEC, Big 10, Big 12-that is all you need. Just about all of the Pac 10 and Big East schools have the potential to make deep runs in the tourney if recruiting goes well, most of the Big 10 schools do,etc.
A big name and a psychotic fan base are hassles a coach doesn't need-just ask Matta and Donovan.

 

[mooktarr]

Imo Tubby didn't leave because of the job. He could have stayed and recruited there. Kentucky has a pull for recruits no matter who the coach is. Sure they are down at the present but he is still a heck of a coach and would have turned it around. All the Univ. had to do was stand behind him
Tubby left because of the situation in the area.