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Aggressive Play and Fouls

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cincibuck

cincibuck

You kids stay off my lawn!
OK, geezer time, I remember the debate on the one hand versus the two hand set shot and the day Sieugo Green of Dusquene introduced the jump shot. I have also watched the steady progression in the amount of contact allowed in the game.

I'm guessing we have a few high school B-Ball coaches on the net and my question to them is this: Is it just my imigination or do the calls tend to go in favor of the more aggressive team in a game, i.e. do the officials get caught up in the speed and intensity of more aggressive play and allow more contact and become more aware of contact made by the less assertive team?

Make sense, or do I need to elaborate?
 
I would have thought it was the opposite. The more aggressive team gets more fouls called against them.

And it seems to me that the smaller players get fewer calls against them than the bigger players. If some 6'6" guy drives against Oden, and he actually got the shot OVER Oden, there's a good chance they're going to call a foul on Oden. But if Oden goes up against the same guy at the other end, and is basically getting tackled as he shoots, there's a good chance they won't call it.

Just my perception. And it's not an Ohio State bias on my part, I think. I've noticed it in other games in the tournament.
 
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Zurp;795205; said:
I would have thought it was the opposite. The more aggressive team gets more fouls called against them.
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The more reckless team might get more fouls called on them, but being aggressive and attacking the hoop usually leads to more FT trips. Being passive often means a team is settling for outside jumpers, which rarely lead to fouls.

It's a large reason Lewis' game has improved so much... the majority of his shots were threes earlier this season. He still takes them (at much better times), but also attacks the lane a lot more.
 
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around here the refs suck, and they let (high school) teams who are known to be aggressive get away with anything.

forearm shivers are routinely used by a team that always wins the league here.....then surprisingly in district play they are in foul trouble.
 
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Zurp;795205; said:
I would have thought it was the opposite. The more aggressive team gets more fouls called against them.
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If I understand cincibuck's argument correctly, it's not that more aggressive teams get fewer fouls called against them, it's that they get away with more fouls, including fouls of the same magnitude that are committed by both teams. But since the more aggressive team is committing a lot more fouls in total, they'll probably have more called against them in total, even as they're also getting away with more.
 
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zincfinger;795254; said:
If I understand cincibuck's argument correctly, it's not that more aggressive teams get fewer fouls called against them, it's that they get away with more fouls, including fouls of the same magnitude that are committed by both teams. But since the more aggressive team is committing a lot more fouls in total, they'll probably have more called against them in total, even as they're also getting away with more.
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Yep, that about sums it up.
 
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I agree with your premise. It seems particularly true when a team is on a run. They can go right through people with no call provided the shot goes in and the crowd is loud.

For different reasons the officiating in this tourney has bothered me more than any I can recall. There is this strong "let them play" mentality that has overriden the "let's enforce the rules" mind set (which is what I thought the refs job was). As a result many fouls seem random - not called in one case but whistled in another. An early second foul has major impact in today's game, particularly on the big guys. There have been two horrible calls against Oden that could have decided either of those games by putting him on the bench. But how can these guys play their game if they don't know what the rules are? Same is true of almost every game I have watched. (And of course nothing has been as outlandish as Al Horford committing 27 charging fouls against Butler and not being called for any of them.)

I don't watch NBA games and I hate to see that style of play work its way into the college ranks. I hate to see untalented Goliaths recruited because they can take it and dish it out, even if they can't hit a jumper from five feet.

Enforce the rules, restrict the contact and the players will adjust.
 
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a couple of comments.

im for the old school style of play.

that being said. their is a theory on the style of play. if you want the game to be physical start early. most of the times the officials will adjust to the more physical team. and you cannot overlook the whole "evening of fouls"

the one thing this year is the consistency of officiating. or shall i say inconsistency.
 
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Oh8ch;795483; said:
Enforce the rules, restrict the contact and the players will adjust.
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That's what it boils down to for me. I just can't see it ever happening. Maybe a couple games finishing 4-on-3 because everybody else has fouled out? Nah, can't see them ever letting that happen.

Every year the NHL announces a crackdown on obstruction, stickwork, etc. and it lasts for about a month before it reverts back to the same crap. I would expect the same from basketball if they ever tried to cutback the muggings.
 
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So I'm not alone? Horford and the UCLA press really caught my eye. I'm not sure just what the refs expect a defensive player to do when Horford starts backing into them.
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Unfortunately the answer is to recruit a Defensive End instead of a basketball player.

I don't know how many folks have seen Diebler play. My first was the state championship game. THAT is a basketball player. Chris Jent type - the kind of kid you want on your team. He took half a dozen charges - all of which were called. Went through at least three devices to try to protect his broken nose - each of which impacted his game and were thus discarded. He is not terribly athletic - but he can play the game if the rules are enforced as written.
 
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jimotis4heisman;796100; said:
taking charges. thats another thing that bugs me. i mean why let the kids flop. that should be penalized.
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Taking charges and flopping, in my opinion, are two different things. Taking charges is OK. And the charge should have nothing to do with whether the defender falls down. So flopping, if properly not-called by the referree, just makes the defender look like a doof. I don't think that flopping should be penalized. But the refs need to get the calls right, and that's typically easier said than done.
 
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