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Red Zone Wah-wah

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BuckeyeNation27

BuckeyeNation27

Goal Goal USA!
Former FF The Deuce Champ
MililaniBuckeye said:
So, if those stats are right, of the seven red zone possessions in which we failed to score, only one was a result of the opposition stopping us (the missed FG). Of the remaining, three were us shooting ourselves in the foot (two fumbles, hands-to-the-facemask penalty) and three mercy runouts. Bottom line: Only once in 41 red zone possessions did an opponent keep us from scoring on their own efforts.
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I would like to think we didn't just drop the ball on the ground....so you have to give credit to the opponents D for fumbles. As for the hands to the face, we could have scored if we tried harder. We didn't, so we didn't score.

Doesn't make sense to pump up our stats on a Buckeye site. We already know how good we are.
 
BuckeyeNation27;649909; said:
I would like to think we didn't just drop the ball on the ground....so you have to give credit to the opponents D for fumbles. As for the hands to the face, we could have scored if we tried harder. We didn't, so we didn't score.
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I disagree, especially on the penalty. The penalty was stupid...no way should Rehring have done that. The defense didn't stop us on that drive...no penalty and we have 1st-and-goal at the 2 with about 10 second left, which is time for a quick pass attempt and if needed a FG from point blank range. IIRC, one of those red zone fumbles was Beanie being way too careless with the ball running into the pile...a freshman mistake that shouldn't have been made. If he carries the ball like he's supposed to and the defense doesn't get the ball. I'm not sure about the other red zone fumble, but of all our fumbles, the only one I can recall off the top of my head that I'd credit to the defense was the strip of Smith this past Saturday against Minnesota...
 
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Well if we just launch 80 yard TDs then we have no lost Red Zone opportunities either. If my aunt had a penis she'd be my uncle.

We could have scored before those fumbles/penalty but we didn't because the defense prevented us from doing so.
 
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BuckeyeNation27;649938; said:
We could have scored before those fumbles/penalty but we didn't because the defense prevented us from doing so.
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Sorry that you lack the ability to distinguish between the defense actually preventing a score and the offense shooting themselves in the foot. Let's say that Rehring did not commit the penalty and we subsequently run a play on 1st-and-goal from the 2 with 8 seconds left, and:

  1. Pittman gets stuffed at the line, keeps fighting but doesn't get in, and time runs out, or
  2. Smith does a designed rollout to the right and delivers a perfect pass to a wide-open Nicol who drops the ball in the end zone, and time runs out

Both scenarios results in a no score for us, yet would you say the defense "prevented" us from scoring in situation #2 as they did in situation #1?
 
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BuckeyeNation27;649947; said:
And I'm sorry that you're incapable of giving anybody besides Ohio State credit. Had we scored on the screen pass to Small then the penalty wouldn't have happened. The defense stopped us from scoring.
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I give credit where credit is due. I suppose the Minnesota special teams "caused" Jenkins to fumble the punt, too... :roll1:

Oh yeah, you didn't answer my question, at least not directly...
 
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Nope, Jenkins was feeling sorry for them so he decided to give them the ball. Everybody else felt bad too, so they let Minny jump on it. Only, Minny didn't jump on it, they tripped and the ball was near them, so an unknown Buckeye reached out, grabbed the ball, and stuck it in the arms of a Gopher. The poor hapless Gopher didn't know what to do, so the Buckeye told him to just hold on to the ball. The Gopher was so stupid he didn't even understand him, so the Buckeye had to teach him English really quick.
 
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BuckeyeNation27;649986; said:
Nope, Jenkins was feeling sorry for them so he decided to give them the ball. Everybody else felt bad too, so they let Minny jump on it. Only, Minny didn't jump on it, they tripped and the ball was near them, so an unknown Buckeye reached out, grabbed the ball, and stuck it in the arms of a Gopher. The poor hapless Gopher didn't know what to do, so the Buckeye told him to just hold on to the ball. The Gopher was so stupid he didn't even understand him, so the Buckeye had to teach him English really quick.
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So Jenkins muffing the punt constitutes Minnesota "causing" the fumble. :roll1:

And the question I was referring to was the one about the two scenarios above...
 
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Jenkins muffing the punt has nothing to do with red zone defense. A punt is a single play, with nothing preceding it and nothing coming after it. For the fumbles and penalties you're taking away from our opponents D, they did something before those things happened to prevent us from scoring.
 
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BuckeyeNation27;650010; said:
Jenkins muffing the punt has nothing to do with red zone defense. A punt is a single play, with nothing preceding it and nothing coming after it.
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1. A muffed punt is like a dropped pass...uncaused by the defense. I brought this up because you specifically implied that the defense should get credit for everything, regardless of what the offense does. If the defense (or in this example, special teams) doesn't directly force the error, then they should not get credit for it. On paper they do, but in the dynamics of reality they don't.

2. Every play is a single play. It was Rehring's penalty, and not the play of the Minnesota defense, that pushed back us 15 yards from the 20 to the 35 instead of us having the ball 1st and goal at the 2.

You still haven't answered my scenario question in post #4 above...
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
1. A muffed punt is like a dropped pass...uncaused by the defense. I brought this up because you specifically implied that the defense should get credit for everything, regardless of what the offense does. If the defense (or in this example, special teams) doesn't directly force the error, then they should not get credit for it. On paper they do, but in the dynamics of reality they don't.

2. Every play is a single play. It was Rehring's penalty, and not the play of the Minnesota defense, that pushed back us 15 yards from the 20 to the 35 instead of us having the ball 1st and goal at the 2.

You still haven't answered my scenario question in post #4 above...
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1. I never said the defense should get credit for everything.
2. A muffed punt is a one play drive. There is nothing that happens before it that could have prevented the muff. If the PR scores, the drive is over. If not, a new drive begins.
A fumble is a defensive stop because the play before the fumble something happened where the defense prevented us from scoring. Unless it's the first play from scrimmage and the player just coughs up the ball without getting touched, then it's a defensive stop. The same applies to penalties. Something happened before that penalty to prevent us from scoring.


Your scenario in post #4 has 2 defensive stops, unless both plays were the first play for our offense. If that were the case, there is only one defensive stop.
 
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BB73;650336; said:
That just balanced out the J-Rich was 'too tall' penalty. :biggrin:
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I think what we're trying to create here is a stat somewhat akin to the "unforced turnover" stat in b-ball. I have some problems with that one too, but what would the definition be if it were to be introduced in football?
 
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cincibuck;650352; said:
I think what we're trying to create here is a stat somewhat akin to the "unforced turnover" stat in b-ball. I have some problems with that one too, but what would the definition be if it were to be introduced in football?
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Clint Stoerner in 1998 comes to mind.
 
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