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- Thread starter LordJeffBuck
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zincfinger
Gert Frobe-approved
What were the main causes of that? Certainly some drop-off, even significant drop-off, from 2012 is easily understandable. But it seems almost amazing to me that, in the space of 5 years, a program goes from that condition to a condition where they can't recruit anybody and can't keep half of the guys they do manage to recruit.
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I can't entirely say. But the popular theory is that Matta's worsening back problems really sapped him of much of the gusto that made him so successful early on. Look at photos of him from 6-7 years ago vs. now and it looks like he aged 15 years. Add in the fact that nearby programs like UK and IU re-emerged as recruiting powers, and Matta's unwillingness to play the increasingly prevalent AAU game, and things just went downhill rapidly.
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Recruiting "fell off" but it wasn't a train wreck (up until like last year)
They werent pulling in UK type classes but they were still landing decently high rated players.
The actual coaching and player development was a huge issue the last 3/4 years. Guys just didnt get better throughout their career and in some cases even declined.
And as evidence by the mass exodus of a basically a whole freshmen class, there was a big stain on the attitude/culture around the program
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He was still pulling in good recruits as recently as 2015, but the development hasn't been there for a few years now. That goes back to his health problems really sapping him of his abilities. And once word got out that his future was in question, recruiting went in the shitter. I would guess other coaches had been planting rumors of his health issues in kids' heads for a couple of years now.
I know people that have lived with back problems. It's absolutely miserable, and effects a person's personality significantly. I have to think his tolerance for bullshit totally went away and that's a big reason that 2015 class went tits up. He probably just didn't have the patience to deal with issues he may have years earlier, and would sooner cut bait than try to work through issues.
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Go back and watch the presser announcing he was leaving. Matta made numerous references to how difficult his job was. That is not the language of someone who is where they want to be.
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I dunno, I think that ship has sailed. Sucks, because I would love to see if Holtmann could harness Lyle's considerable talent.
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The Wessons/Funderberk/Potter/Beverly all seem like players that Holtmann can work with and get the best out of. Could be a decent 3/4 year core with him at the helm, with whatever recruits he is able to bring in.
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zincfinger
Gert Frobe-approved
Are you saying that Matta lost his enjoyment of coaching, sometime in the last 5 or so years and maybe due to his back or other factors, and once that happened he was no longer able to do it well?
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Well, I think this was as good of a hire as we could get given the timing of everything. As furious as I am at GS for not doing this sooner and keeping Archie Miller in Ohio, I am nonetheless excited to see what Holtmann can do here and will certainly be patient to see what results he can get. Who knows, maybe Miller tanks at IU and Holtmann thrives...I think both will have at least some decent level of success but it will be interesting to watch. I think Holtmann is going to at least give us a watchable season this year, but I don't even think Coach K could get the 2017-18 team to sniff a chance at the tourney. However, if he can bring in some top level recruits and keep some key targets in-state, the 2018-19 team could be very fun to watch. It will be a process but I am excited to see what Coach Holtmann brings to the table. Welcome aboard coach!
Here is a brief article from Rivals basketball on the recruiting implications of the hire and Eric Bossi's opinion that this was a very good hire.
Here is a brief article from Rivals basketball on the recruiting implications of the hire and Eric Bossi's opinion that this was a very good hire.
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OHSportsFan
Fan of Ohio Sports in Indy
This isn't to say it's going to be an easy road. The program in it's current state is not good. Midwest basketball is as tough as it's been- UK, UofL, IU, Purdue, MSU still destination name (heck even next tier, ND has an established brand, Xavier, Michigan, Illinois with a great hire, and the program Chris is leaving, Butler). This is an uphill battle, but Holtmann will make us competitive and proud again. I have no doubts about this hire.
We are going to see such a dramatic change the next couple years in how we play. His Bulldogs get after it defensively. Effort will not be a question. I mentioned in the searching thread about the "Butler Way" but for those that don't know it really dates back to Matta, Stevens, briefly our friend Brandon Miller and then Holtmann. It's about doing things the right way- smart basketball that we haven't seen in years. This is one of those "proud of our guys off the court, in the classroom...and most importantly" type of hires. I've been around the Butler program enough to know this is the cradle of coaches and we just took a good one.
Again, I won't predict instant results but I'm telling you this is an exciting hire. Give this some time but Coach Holtmann will get the Buckeyes back.
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